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Jean

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 02:27 PM

Yep but just because something has a short shelf life, doesn't mean that getting hair in it isn't a problem. It bugs me that macdonald's staff just wear baseball caps but they expect their suppliers to have full high risk or high care (including the wearing of mob caps!)



Hi GMO,

I can understand how frustrated one can get when they get a hair in their order.To be honest, it is not only the catering staff that have to wear the mob caps but also the customers when they dine . We have see customers who come in to dine with loose and long hair and there is a high probability for the hair to fall into the foods and chances for hair to fall when they walk past other tables. We had an experience regarding a long blond hair from food served to a guest. But when we looked (we had no staff with blonde hair ) there was a guest at the nearest table with blond hair who was constantly fiddling with her hair(this was for a buffet service). In such a case what is that we can do???

Best regards,

J

Only the curious will learn and only the resolute overcome the obstacles to learning. The quest quotient has always excited me more than the intelligence quotient. Eugene S Wilson

EuGeNe

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 02:32 AM

My opinion?

Wear it. Be it bushy, curly, straight, red or skinhead. Its good to ensure standardization of all rules. Exceptions like those will only cause reasoning and make the rules questionable.

Rgds,
Eugene



Esther

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:19 PM

Hello all

Thank you so much for all your comments, I could never imagine such an amount of comments. It is amazing, issues such as hair in the noise, ears, eye lashes, eye browns, scald microbiology
have come out.
All of them are very appreciated regardless I am agree with them or not.

Just some comments.

About the “same rule for all” I like the most to go to the bottom of the issue, I mean, go to training as Jozee said. The rule is based on the reason: “you must take any action in order to prevent food contamination from your hair/scald”. If you want to do it by covering your hair or by becoming complete bald it is up to you.

About “touching ear”, again, I would go for training more than for “covering ears” otherwise you would be saying than bald people have higher probability of touching ears than people with hair on.

Regarding scald microbiology I would say that it seems that has been suggested than a bacteria from the scald has a higher probability of falling into the food than a bacteria from front, temples or cheeks. The same regarding sweat.

Charles.C, my policy about jewelly will be “ not jewelling at all”, I have never been agree about the exception with the wedding plain ring. It has been demonstrated than after hand washing bacteria still remains bellow the ring and there is probability of coming out during work, even more if you work with wet stuff.

Yongym, about your scenario, I can see another king of problem and it has nothing to do with food hygiene. I mean, if some of the other nine food handlers finally decide voluntary to remove its hairnet only because the bald person is not wearing it then, as I said, I see another king of problem: lack of training, not very thoughtful person, etc etc

Ynci, I take your question asking you another one. As far as I know, some men get shaved every 2,3 even 4 days depending of each person. So what happen if their bear is almost coming out? Would you ask that person to wear a bear covering that day? I think I would not but always having in mind the king of food he is handling.

At least one thing missing, what about hair on hands and arms I am just joking, sorry.

To sum up, for the case I had in mind when I first wrote down the mail, a man chef working in a restaurant, totally bald, no skin damage or disease on his scald and applying GMP, I do not see the need of wearing hairnet. And also, as Jozee said, there is no definitive ruling for this, just risk analysis.

But, totally agree to Rita: training and risk assessment about the king of food you are handling is the most important thing.

Best regards



Jean

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 11:43 AM

To sum up, for the case I had in mind when I first wrote down the mail, a man chef working in a restaurant, totally bald, no skin damage or disease on his scald and applying GMP, I do not see the need of wearing hairnet. And also, as Jozee said, there is no definitive ruling for this, just risk analysis.

But, totally agree to Rita: training and risk assessment about the king of food you are handling is the most important thing.

Best regards


Agree risk assessment and training are important. I am glad to read on your comment regarding the bald chef and hence was the reason for my first reply.

Best regards,

J

Only the curious will learn and only the resolute overcome the obstacles to learning. The quest quotient has always excited me more than the intelligence quotient. Eugene S Wilson

EuGeNe

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:06 AM

King of food, esther? :giggle:

Lol... ok, i know!



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Posted 25 August 2008 - 11:04 AM

Dear Esther,

Very analytically assembled post as usual. :thumbup:
I have a few comments.

If you want to do it by covering your hair or by becoming complete bald it is up to you.


(a) Surely the decision is up to the restaurant controller unless an infringement on worker’s rights might be involved (I know this is possible in some countries.). (b) Do you mean that you actually know of validated examples of people going bald in order to avoid food contamination ? :whistle:

Going OT somewhat -

It has been demonstrated than after hand washing bacteria still remains bellow the ring and there is probability of coming out during work, even more if you work with wet stuff.


This seems a very unlikely cause of a health related incident ?, eg likelihood of occurrence x severity = negligible. Although I admit that applying the calculation to things like lip-rings gives a similar but less aesthetically pleasing result (to me anyway).

I noticed you did not comment on the issue of mouth coverings. Any opinion ?

Rgds / Charles.C

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Esther

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 04:53 PM

Hello Charles C.

ABout mouth coverings, again, I would take that decition based on risk assesment. I would never said: mounth covering is mandatory in all and any kind of food premises.

For example, for me, it does not make sense to use them in an abbatoir but other thing is a sandwich assembling premise.

Regards
Esther



Esther

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 04:57 PM

Dear Charles C.

Sorry, I forgot to mention it in my former comment,

Regarding your (b) question, No, I do not know such a case but you never know.

Regards
Esther



hygienic

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 01:15 PM

I think .skin should not expose directly to food.food handler who is bald .if he working in food process or in the kitchen in some catering services.meight sweat and the drops will be in the end up of the product.
this is my opinion

AM I RIGHT?
Please correct me



Theo

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 03:49 PM

IN MY IMMEDIATE PAST JOB BEARDED FOOD HANDLERS WERE PERMITTED EXCEPT THAT THEY HAD TO PUT ON BEARD SNOOP MANDATORILY. IMO, FROM A RISK ASSESSMENT POINT OF VIEW A BALD FOOD HANDLER NEED NOT WEAR A HAIRNET,[ I GUESS THE NAME EXPLANS THE PURPOSE - HAIR-NET ITS MEANT TO CONTAIN THE HAIR AND NOT THE SCALP] JUST SAME WAY AS A CLEAN SHAVEN FOOD HANDLER ISNT EXPECTED TO USE A BEARD SNOOP.

HOWEVER FROM AN ORGANISATIONAL FOOD SAFETY CULTURE POINT OF VIEW, A BLANKET POLICY FOR ALL FOOD HANDLERS IS THE BEST POLICY.

JUST MY OWN THOTS THOUGH.

THEO



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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:41 AM

I disagree. The head covering (e.g. mobcap) should cover the ears ideally as well and so stops the food handler from touching the ears. Also, it becomes difficult with getting everyone to stick to the rules. One rule for all I say!


I think I agree with Jean and I disagree with the "one rule for all". I think the answer is COMMON SENSE.

Is like you ask an employee without hands, to wash his/her hands before start working.

I remember last year when I was auditing ISO-9001 for a bean canning plant, I saw personnel using face masks in the finished product warehouse (where all cans are completely closed and inside their cases and the warehouse was a separate facility far from the process area). When I ask for the use of that annoying article, the answer was the same: “one rule for all and for all the plant”. Also I saw people in the same plant (outdoors) unloading beans from a truck using hairnets and face masks.



The employee need to know the reason for all the rules, they need to know about the consequences.



An organization that I audit (confectionery site in Texas) allows bald people not to use hairnets.


Saludos.


herb b

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 04:28 PM

Here is a question.

If beard nets are required, should mustaches also be covered? I have worked for several large food companies, name starts with N, and beard nets were required, but mustaches were ok.



The FDA audit here in the USA we just had indicated that all facial hair must be covered. I asked about eyebrows and got a dirty look.



Any thoughts worldwide on this?



stsqf

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 04:56 PM

This is one of those things that will always be debated... unless this is standardized by the FDAs new power!

Our policy states that "Beard nets are to be worn by those who have beards, mustaches, or long sideburns. Neatly trimmed mustaches that do not fall below the lower lip or extend past the edge of the mouth do not require a beard net."

If it were up to me, I would eliminate the second sentence - it is just simply hard to monitor what is considered "ok" to not be in a beard net. :dunno:



GMO

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 05:30 PM

Here is a question.

If beard nets are required, should mustaches also be covered? I have worked for several large food companies, name starts with N, and beard nets were required, but mustaches were ok.



The FDA audit here in the USA we just had indicated that all facial hair must be covered. I asked about eyebrows and got a dirty look.



Any thoughts worldwide on this?



I've always insisted moustaches are covered as well. It's not practicable to cover eyebrows. Were said eyebrows raised at you?

Always good to have an old topic resurrected!




Simon

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 07:47 PM

What does it say in standards such as BRC, SQF, IFS, FSSC about facial hair?

Don't tell me risk assessment. :rolleyes:


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GMO

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 08:19 PM

Nothing in BRC as far as I'm aware. Hang on, let me grab my copy of the BRC standard i my lounge... (I do not jest)

Just "the requirements for personal hygiene shall be documented and communicated to all personnel". It specifies about nails being short not hair being covered. Certainly beard snoods aren't in all food manufacturing sites I've seen but they have become more common in recent years. I suspect something more specific (probably along the lines of "risk assessment") will be in version 6.



shabani

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 06:43 PM

Yes they should

Hello all

Should or not a bald food handler wear a hairnat or head covering ?

Some of local authorities are requiring this to the chefs.

Regulations do not mention this posibility, I mean, food handlers being bald so it is said: " food handlers must wear hearnet".

Some other experiences, is there a conclusive answer?

Best regards

Esther



shabani

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 06:45 PM

It depends of the length of hair, as long as trimmed, it's ok

Here is a question.

If beard nets are required, should mustaches also be covered? I have worked for several large food companies, name starts with N, and beard nets were required, but mustaches were ok.



The FDA audit here in the USA we just had indicated that all facial hair must be covered. I asked about eyebrows and got a dirty look.



Any thoughts worldwide on this?






shabani

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 06:46 PM

They have to be kept short, I think standard is a few mm, otherwise should be covered

It depends of the length of hair, as long as trimmed, it's ok









stsqf

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 07:43 PM

FYI -

SQF says...

(6.1.2.1 - Clothing Worn by Staff Handling Product)

"Clothing worn by staff engaged in handling food shall be maintained, stored, laundered and worn so as not to present a contamination risk to product...." With a note below stating "Clothing includes work clothing, overalls, head covering, hair nets, smocks, beard snoods, and coats."



GMO

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 10:04 AM

It's an interesting thought the people on this thread who have said "no, it's pointless" and "one rule for all makes no sense". I was thinking about what culture this could create. What about the operator who walks into the production room and says "I don't need to wash my hands, I've only just washed them in the toilet" or what about a visitor who isn't going to touch the product? Or maybe naturists who like waxing a lot surely no protective clothing is required then...Posted Image



Foodworker

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 10:49 AM

The one rule for all is the best compromise for a notoriously difficult management problem.

As soon as you start making allowances for different individuals, the boundaries get pushed.

I have frequently seen photographs of the acceptable limits for an unshaven chin in food factories. I jokingly suggested once that they should include this in their calibration programme which didn't go down well!

My favourite instance was in a factory a couple of years ago where the workforce was of mixed religions. One of them (I think it was Sikhs) complained to the management, that to wear beard snoods was discriminating against their religion as they were obliged to have beards.

The Director's solution was to make everybody wear snoods even if they didn't have a beard. He then went on to include women in this rule to prevent the next wave of discrimination claims!



herb b

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 04:30 PM

Good thoughts all.

Having run into problems allowing warehouse workers to not wear hairnets, I am thinking beard nets along the same line. If you have a beard, wear a net.

Right now we allow beards that are close cut, up to 1/2inch. I guess if I can pull a hair, put on a net.

I don't like that the FDA said you must require everyone to wear a beard net. The regulations, 21 CFR 110.6 just specify "where appropriate." Really gray....
herb



foodsafetyboy

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:14 PM

I agree with the comments above... one rule for all...
but what about our muslim brothers and sisters? I also have this question in mind but I am still looking for the best answer that would satisfy my curiousity.

I work in UAE where most of the visitors are wearing their abaya and candoora, of course we cannot request them to remove them especially the ladies.

Are they obliged to wear hairnets or headgear?


Thanks

Regards,
FSB



Brad V

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:23 PM

From my experiences you can do anything you want providing you can support your decision though a risk assessment and a effective documented policy (GMP's). You could state in your GMP's "All employee's must wear proper hair restraint with the exception of those without hair". Be prepared to be challenged by auditors and regulators on how much hair is "without hair"? and how do they keep their head clean?. I just find it easier for everyone to wear a hairnet.





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