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#1 Gijs

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 03:59 AM

Hi all,

My name's Gijs. I'm a food science graduate from Wageningen University, and am currently employed at a spice ingredients company in Indonesia, where I'm responsible for setting up and implementing an FSMS that complies with ISO 22000 requirements.

We're a new and very small company that buys its product from the source. The food safety team basically consists of one person (me). My boss thinks that that's enough. I think it's not. So we have a lot of fights.

I somehow just can't convince him that what he wants is not realistic. Meanwhile, I try to do what I can, because I find the versatility of Quality Management Systems fascinating and learn a lot from it!

I will probably ask a question or two about setting up an FSMS. Maybe some of my questions are too specific and/or strange, but ey: It's less stupid to ask a stupid question than not to ask a question at all, right!

Hope some people can help me out a bit.

Cheers,

Gijs


Edited by Gijs, 31 July 2008 - 04:01 AM.

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#2 Charles.C

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 04:22 AM

Dear Gijs,

Thks for the background data and welcome to the forum ! :welcome:

Sounds like yr boss suffers from the under- investment syndrome. Very common QA problem unfortunately. :smile: May mean you are doing too good a job.

Seems to be a lot of spice business out of Indonesia ? Look forward to any questions.

Rgds / Charles.C


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Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#3 Gijs

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 05:56 AM

Thanks Charles,

Well at first I didn't want to blame him for a lack of commitment (in providing resources). Instead, I considered it a lack of awareness (we have/had no experience, remember), resulting in a lack of resources. However, over the past months I've stressed over and over again the need of
- help in identifying OPRPs (really, I think they're hell. I've tried over and over again, but I apparently make a thinking mistake. I think we need help for that (and other things), he thinks that's too expensive.
- control of CCPs (in our case, a.o. Salmonella testing)
- pest control by external party
- training
- etc.

so yeah, now I think it's fair to say he suffers from the under-investment syndrome. For the FSMS that is. I just heard he's trying to the number plate of his car changed, because he want a nice number.

That will cost the COMPANY 8.000.000Rp
That's a hundred Salmonella tests, which in our case will be four hundred samples.

:dunno:


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#4 Simon

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 06:07 AM

Welcome to the forum Gijs. It's difficult to develop the understanding, shamefully it often needs a catastrophe to trigger it. Don't give up trying, there are dozens of product recall news items published every week, maybe you should print one of the best off each week and leave it in the lavatory - stuck to the back of the door. :thumbup:

Please join the discussions.

Regards,
Simon


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Best Regards,

Simon Timperley
IFSQN Administrator
 
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Need food safety advice?
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#5 Gijs

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 06:57 AM

Thanks for your support, Simon!

I'm not giving up hope. I'm sure we can get the certification, but not under these circumstances and conditions. I know what our weak points are (I consider that a good point), and I know how we can solve them. Unfortunately for my boss' wallet, it requires some stringent measures and consultation from external parties, which he refuses to allow.

So it's a sort of stale mate.

He'll see the consequences when we fail to get the certificate by doing it this way (guess who gets the blame). But then I will also have the feeling that I have failed myself... at least I haven't been able to prove that I'm right.

Anyway, a lot of those things going on here. I'm half seriously considering to write a book: "The devil sells spices". Not doing it, because it will not be fun for people who don't know HACCP etc. However, if more than 100 people sign up, I'll give it a second thought!

:smarty:


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#6 Simon

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 07:55 AM

Does it have a requirement in ISO 22000 for top management commitment and does that commitment include the need to provide adequate resources to maintain an effective system? I’m guessing it has something like this.

Well if you cannot get the resources to fund external help you always have a free source here to kick around ideas and get advice. You are not alone. :biggrin:

Regards,
Simon


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Best Regards,

Simon Timperley
IFSQN Administrator
 
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Need food safety advice?
Relax, you've come to the right place…

The IFSQN is a helpful network of volunteers providing answers and support. Check out the forums and get free advice from the experts on food safety management systems and a wide range of food safety topics.

 
We could make a huge list of rules, terms and conditions, but you probably wouldn’t read them.

All that we ask is that you observe the following:


1. No spam, profanity, pornography, trolling or personal attacks

2. Topics and posts should be “on topic” and related to site content
3. No (unpaid) advertising
4. You may have one account on the board at any one time
5. Enjoy your stay!


#7 okido

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 05:06 PM

Hey Gijs,

Welkom op dit forum, je zult hier vast wat van enige waarde kunnen vinden. :welcome:

Vriendelijke groeten, Okido


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#8 GMO

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 05:30 AM

It does sound like he wants ISO22000 but doesn't know what that means and doesn't want to invest.

Perhaps the first place to start with him is this; "why do you want ISO22000?"

The fact is, we all know you can get through an audit with a manufacturing process which you would not totally approve but that's not the point of having an external audit and accreditation.

ISO22000 is about food safety and part of it is about HACCP. As you know, you can't have a HACCP team of 1, therefore, I would say he needs to be part of the HACCP team as well. Imagine the fights you're going to have there!

Sorry to be brutal but I suspect he's been told to get this and so has done it in the cheapest way possible by bringing in a student rather than an experienced consultant. I think you need to be realistic about what you can acheive in this role because this is a process some people have gone through after years of experience in food and still found very hard.


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