17 replies to this topic

[prav]

Though I have enjoyed to browse the forums for a long wile I didn’t make a post thus far. Our company is almost two years in pursuit of ISO22000 and now thankfully we are almost ready for 3^rd party audit. I am located in Mumbai and would like to solicit recommendations for certification body operating in India. I am looking at TUV so far – any news? Please do the needful.

Thank-you

Praveen

[Erasmo]

Hi Praveen,
Please consider LRQA www.lrqa.com they have good auditor in that region.

Saludos.

[Biss]

Hi,

I think DNV or BSI will be the better options for the ISO 22000 certifications. our organisation is certified by BSI.

[prav]

thank-you for your recommendations erasmo.. Biss it is good to find sombody with experience to share in India. For what reason do you say that DNV or BSI will be the better options for the ISO 22000 certifications.

[Charles.C]

Dear Praveen,

A little bit late but thks for yr input and Welcome to the forum

Rgds / Charles.C

[chen]

Which ever certification body, I would want to have a look at the profile of the potential Auditor. In this region, I am wary of those A to Z Auditors. Those that claim that they can audit almost every ISO and/or other certifications on earth.

Find out their experience and background - the number of food audits that they had done and whether they are related to your industry (less important if your processes are simple).

Otherwise, which CB will not claim they are the best?

Edited by chen, 21 September 2008 - 07:11 AM.

[Simon]

Which ever certification body, I would want to have a look at the profile of the potential Auditor. In this region, I am wary of those A to Z Auditors. Those that claim that they can audit almost every ISO and/or other certifications on earth.

Find out their experience and background - the number of food audits that they had done and whether they are related to your industry (less important if your processes are simple).

Otherwise, which CB will not claim they are the best?

Excellent advice Chen. It all comes own to the auditor. Is it acceptable to ask to see the auditors Resume or CV?

Regards,
Simon

[Erasmo]

Excellent advice Chen. It all comes own to the auditor. Is it acceptable to ask to see the auditors Resume or CV?

Regards,
Simon

Of course, the client could ask for the auditor profile at all time. Before and during the 3 year contract.

[Simon]

Of course, the client could ask for the auditor profile at all time. Before and during the 3 year contract.

Evidence of competence is important to auditors of standards and likewise it should be important to the auditee.

Has anyone (had the cheek) to ask for an auditors CV?

Regards,
Simon

[BELE]

I am not impartial, but I would recommend you to ask for a proposal from Bureau Veritas Certification in India. They have local fully qualified auditors and are accredited by NABCB & UKAS.

BR

[chen]

..................... Has anyone (had the cheek) to ask for an auditors CV?

Regards,
Simon

Simon, the days of Auditees being afraid of or are bullied by Auditors are practically over. Both parties should be able to deal with each other in a professional manner for the overall good of the industry.

Supply and demand forces had made CB's more end 'User' friendly. These days you can call up the customer service department and find out a lot of info or discuss things in fairly detail manner (at least from where I am).

But things could be different for those organizations with a lot of skeletons in the cupboard. Also, if you do not know what to ask you aren't getting anything in return.

[Ashwin]

Simon, the days of Auditees being afraid of or are bullied by Auditors are practically over. Both parties should be able to deal with each other in a professional manner for the overall good of the industry.

Supply and demand forces had made CB's more end 'User' friendly. These days you can call up the customer service department and find out a lot of info or discuss things in fairly detail manner (at least from where I am).

But things could be different for those organizations with a lot of skeletons in the cupboard. Also, if you do not know what to ask you aren't getting anything in return.

I agree with Chen.Indeed CBs & Auditors Have changed for Good.
It is possible in India to ask for Auditor profile & most of the CBs provide the details.

Regards
Ashwin

[Simon]

Thanks for the replies everyone - good advice.

So to round up for Praveen (if you are still there). There are some recommendations for certification Bodies here. Also try looking in our online directory

And always make sure the CB are accredited and the auditor is qualified and experienced to audit your industyr sector. Ask for a profile of the auditor.

One question to others, gong back to what Chen said - what should Praveen be asking of ISO 22000 auditors specifically?

Regards,
Simon

[Ashwin]

Though I have enjoyed to browse the forums for a long wile I didn’t make a post thus far. Our company is almost two years in pursuit of ISO22000 and now thankfully we are almost ready for 3^rd party audit. I am located in Mumbai and would like to solicit recommendations for certification body operating in India. I am looking at TUV so far – any news? Please do the needful.

Thank-you

Praveen

Dear Praveen,

I suggest that first shortlist accredited certification bodies as per your scope of business by asking whether or not the certification body is accredited to provide certification services in your specific area of operations .If answer is Yes then verify the competence as suggested by fellow forum members.Ask for the quotations & then Make a choice. I will give you names of Few renowned CBs operating in India. you can visit their respective websites for contact details.
1.Bureau Veritas Certification (India) Pvt. Ltd
2.DNV
3.Foodcert India Pvt. Ltd.
4.Moody International
5.TUV South Asia Pvt. Ltd.
6.SGS India Pvt. Ltd.
7.SAI Global Ltd.
8.BSI
9.LRQA

Criteria for selection has been discussed by forum members.So all the best

Regards
Ashwin

[Jean]

Dear Ashwin,

Good advice and thanks for the list as I was looking for the same.

[Charles.C]

Dear All,

Indeed, nice list Ashwin

I hv sort of a side comment.

Clearly the auditorial competence is relevant (or should be) to both sides. In fact, I hv seen several cases where multiple auditors are involved (2-3 persons) specifically to address this problem (Lead auditor ++). However I get the impression from above posts that for many people only one auditor is the norm ?? I hv never forgotten a remark made by a lone VIP external HACCP auditor several years back who, on my politely asking whether he had any particular familiarity with my area at that time, replied "I don't care whether you're producing shrimps or hotdogs, the hygiene is all that counts to me"! I suppose from a PRP / HACCP perspective, there is some truth in his reply but at that moment his credibility went to zero. Within 1hr or so, he had well validated that opinion.

Have no doubt many of you hv had similar experiences.

Rgds / Charles.C

[Ashwin]

Dear All,

In my earlier post I have mentioned while selecting a CB one must always opt for accredited CB. It will address the competency issue to large extent.

As per International Accreditation Forum guideline, the Accreditation bodies evaluate how a Certification body reviews client applications and determines the associated competency needs for the audit team. The Accreditation Bodies also evaluate the selection and appointment of appropriate audit team members and technical experts.
In a situation when Auditor does not have the technical Experience of a particular scope,a technical Expert is included in audit team.
The combination of processes and resources that a CB uses to ensure that competent auditors will undertake audits competently represents its “competency management system”. & it is a key criteria in granting Accreditation.
An accredited CB for FSMS must abide by ISO/IEC 17021:2006 which covers Competence, integrity ethics & impartiality..So I feel selecting an accredited CB will address our concern about competency.



Regards

Ashwin

Edited by Ashwin, 28 September 2008 - 03:26 PM.

[prav]

Thank-you all so very much for the information I have simulated a good response and am very happy. I have a clear idea now the way to proceed and the questions to ask to make the good choice.

Thank-you so much.

Praveen Gupta