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Poll: Are you interested in a new global institute such as Allan Sayle discusses? (14 member(s) have cast votes)

Are you interested in a new global institute such as Allan Sayle discusses?

  1. Yes - I Agree (12 votes [85.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 85.71%

  2. No - I Disagree (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. I Have No Opinion (2 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

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#1 Simon

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 08:27 PM

Towards a global cyber institute - Part 1.
By Allan J. Sayle

Part 1 of Allan J. Sayle's latest paper takes a look at the current Quality Institutes (esp. ASQ, IQA) and their shortfalls in today's digitized world. He advocates the development of a New Global Cyber Institute for Quality Practitioners.

Do you agree or disagree with the reasoning and conclusions of Allan Sayle's paper. Please vote and explain your decision in this thread.

Towards a global cyber institute - Part 1.

The issue is also running on the C*#!! C*#! Forums please vote in their poll at the following link: *LINK REMOVED* - the issue was running but for some reason the thread has been deleted.

Regards,
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#2 Simon

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 11:10 AM

I am a presently a member of the IQA and my opinion of them is pretty negative (I admit I've no knowledge of the ASQ). The IQA's slogan is 'To place quality at the heart of every organization' but they should really continue to say this will be on their terms and by their methods alone; the IQA deny the very existence of places like the sdf and the C*#! because we frighten them and we present an unquantifiable threat to their longstanding monopolistic hold on quality.

You know I've posted stuff on this site for the IQA previously yet on three separate occasions I emailed them to ask about providing a link to SaferPak from their web site; unfortunately they did not have the courtesy to reply. I thought maybe SaferPak would be of interest to IQA members and help the IQA in small way to achieve their slogan - you know what thought did.

Yes I believe the IQA et al are frightened of the C*#! and to a lesser extent the sdf (remember we are still only a baby), they are frightened because no matter how glossy their magazines, how powerful their marketing machines and how polished their ivory towers they cannot achieve what specialist online quality resources can achieve - unless that is they employ someone like me or marc - and that's the secret! It takes a special kind of individual to create and maintain a place like the C*#! or saferpak; the person needs passion, an unbelievable work ethic, dedication, technical know how, subject knowledge, they must be an expert in all aspects of web design and promotion and a bunch of other stuff. It's obvious the IQA haven't got one of these rare breeds.

An idea like this will have the IQA et al quaking in their boots (a thought I quite like) I also like the notion of a Global Cyber Quality Institute (I voted yes) and I am looking forward to hearing the ‘how' in part 2 of Allan's article. My mind is open however has anyone thought we may just be a small but perfectly formed bunch of nerds? Are we the activists? Are we the technologically savvy? Are we just a cartel of nerdy, activist, technologically savvy quality practitioners? Do you see how the potential membership base of the GCQI diminishes?

The IQA have around 12,000 members and the ASQ many thousands more??? How many active members are there on the C*#! and sdf? And how many of these ‘voted positive' members would play an active role in developing and supporting a Global Cyber Quality Institute?

A great idea in principal and a GCQI developed and maintained by people who know ‘how to' would beat the pants off them all - but can anyone really be bothered?

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Simon


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#3 Wallace Tait

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 01:34 PM

I voted yes here and at the C*#! too.
I have reservations though regarding, initiating a reformation of sorts. The IQA, ASQ and others have merely lost tough with the information economy of this century and have become complacent. Reframing these organizations may be in order rather than reformation, or even extinction.
We need IMO, dialog with the upper management of these organizations and, in doing so we may be able to paint a bigger picture of where the so called Quality profession stands, in relation to what is actually needed to either reform or reframe.
I fear that the gentleman's club that the IQA and ASQ have become, shall be merely transferred into the GCQI. The snobbery that is evidently part of rather large organizations, is something that would have to be dealt with at the offset. The word professional seems to be popping up way to often in correlation to the set up of a Global quality institute. I don't wish to support an organization that, enforces a capitalistic them and us atmosphere.
The regular working guy out there is as interested in quality issues and, just as keen to be involved, informed and as well trained as any quality so called professional.
JMO of course.
Wallace.


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#4 Simon

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 07:05 PM

The word professional seems to be popping up way to often in correlation to the set up of a Global quality institute. I don't wish to support an organization that, enforces a capitalistic them and us atmosphere. The regular working guy out there is as interested in quality issues and, just as keen to be involved, informed and as well trained as any quality so called professional.

Wallace, ‘professional' shouldn't be seen as a negative, whoever the Global Quality Institute customers are they would expect professional standards of products and services. What I wouldn't want to see and couldn't support is a reproduction of IQA/AQS - I guess we'll have to wait to hear Allan's ideas. :dunno:

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#5 allanj

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 08:38 PM

Though it would seem many people are interested in my ideas, that is in Part 2 of my article, I am interested, as others should be, in the vioews of the quality "constituency". If such an Institute should be started, what features would people like, dislike and so on. As such, Wallace has stated a few of his concerns: I appreciate his remarks.

I am just one person who happens to have written anarticle that C*#!! C*#! introduces (rightly) as a starting point. It is not a finishing point.

I am also curious to see the level of interest, apathy etc, that may be revealed by comments on Saferpak and by the actual poll.


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#6 Wallace Tait

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 03:02 AM

Wallace, ‘professional’ shouldn't be seen as a negative, whoever the Global Quality Institute customers are they would expect professional standards of products and services.  What I wouldn’t want to see and couldn’t support is a reproduction of IQA/AQS - I guess we’ll have to wait to hear Allan's ideas. :dunno:

Regards,
Simon


Professional certainly isn't negative, yet I get a wee bit agitated when colleagues and friends correlate and associate success solely with being professional. This is just one of my personal gripes regarding individuals who insist on seeing the degrees you may or may not have.


Simon,
When you say, "What I wouldn't want to see and couldn't support is a reproduction of IQA/AQS". Please explain further? I believe these institutions have already been given notice by Saferpak and the C*#! to re-frame. By Re-frame, I mean to reform from within and redress the insufficiencies of their organizational culture.
I guess we have to have some kind of dialog with these institutions, as they are well respected and almost venerated institutions.
The very nature of our chosen business fields encourages us to, allow our colleagues within these institutions to respond, possibly meet and re-frame.
JMO, FWIW.
Wallace Tait.
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#7 Simon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:49 AM

Professional certainly isn't negative, yet I get a wee bit agitated when colleagues and friends correlate and associate success solely with being professional. This is just one of my personal gripes regarding individuals who insist on seeing the degrees you may or may not have.

Sorry Wallace I think we've been misunderstanding each other; I was talking about being professionally run (not amateurish) rather than the qualifications one would need in order to log on.

Simon, when you say, "What I wouldn't want to see and couldn't support is a reproduction of IQA/AQS". Please explain further?

A boring, hierarchical, bureaucratic gentleman's club.

Though it would seem many people are interested in my ideas, that is in Part 2 of my article, I am interested, as others should be, in the views of the quality "constituency". If such an Institute should be started, what features would people like, dislike and so on.

I'd like to see Innovation! Lot's of unique ideas practically realised. For me a GCQI would have to be very different and/or better than the current offerings. Personally I want to learn through reading the latest cutting edge information and research articles from quality gurus throughout the world but also practical implementation case studies written by none academics/consultants. I would also like to network with peers on my level, in my area or not in my area, on my areas of subject interest.

I'm not so interested in different levels of membership, certification, examinations etc. You know all the boring stuff.

I'm looking at my computer screen, I see a map of the world, its interactive, I click on India, I can see what's happening at Indian headquarters (not real headquarters just in cyberspace) conferences and seminars, national and international Special Interest work groups, open discussion forums, I click on Mumbai, I can see their jobs board, local branch meetings past, present and yet to come. I decide to start a Special Interest Group on ‘quality metrics of Indonesian rabbit food' better do a search first to see if there's already a group. Ding - dong my interactive newsletter's arrived - what's this? Details of QQWC 2010, the Quality Quiz World Championships, wow I can't wait - two weeks of intense battle between some of the finest minds in the world and all live from my desktop - come on England we've got Malaysia in the first round…

Regards,
Simon
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#8 allanj

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:09 PM

...practical implementation case studies written by none academics/consultants.  Simon


I apologise, Simon: I am a consultant. :lol:
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#9 Simon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 06:54 PM

I apologise, Simon: I am a consultant.  :lol:

I should think so. :beer:

I suppose we could make an exception for you Allan, provided...you know the secret handshake. :shades:

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#10 Simon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 06:56 PM

Anyway apart from the Quality Quiz World Championships what do people want to see in the Global Cyber Institute?

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#11 allanj

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 09:21 AM

After receiving some emails through my own business web site (domain), I wish to repeat, Part 2 will not be posted for a few weeks. This is to allow people time to consider the idea and their own ideas about such an Institute. Meantime, please vote and also post your thoughts, what you would like/ not like in a new cyber Institute.

I also repeat, voting does not commit you to anything. The poll is "blind".


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#12 Simon

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 08:14 PM

Come on Ladies and Gents, please vote even if you have no opinion (there is an option).

Thanks,
Simon


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#13 Wallace Tait

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 04:34 PM

I'm looking for three core values to be present in and throughout a GQCI.

1. Management excellence
2. Innovation
3. Member/customer focused relations
Wallace.


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#14 Simon

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 09:29 PM

A good set of core values Wallace. I like them.

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#15 Wallace Tait

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 10:33 PM

A good set of core values Wallace.  I like them.

Regards,
Simon


For the most part, these three elements are present and encouraged at Saferpak. I'm intrigued as to, why there's such a slow response to Allan's initial proposal. What's your take?
According to the 6 votes cast: this isn't a population sample worthy of measure at this time. I encourage all Saferpakers to vote, and use your God given right to voice your opinion. There's not many forums such as Saferpak and the C*#!, let's keep it alive and kicking.
Wallace. ;)
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#16 Wallace Tait

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 02:32 AM

Another thought:

It seems to me that, all this talk and suggestions regarding a GQCI really mirrors what Saferpak and the C*#! are merely doing at this time, and it may be time to take a second look at Saferpak regarding, structure and what it currently offers members.
We have a forum at Saferpak and, we Blog, cause great debate, innovate and serve each other within a managed and professional environment. I would say we have what we need here. All we have to do is re-examine, possible reform and re-frame what we are experiencing at this time throughout Saferpak and, "snap" we have a GQCI.
Saferpak is aligned more with the food industry at this time. While I am not involved within the food industry, I have indeed learned from and gleaned much from the experts at SDF.
Maybe, just maybe, we may have an opportunity to reframe Saferpak and align the three core values mentioned in a previous post to the future Saferpak, expanding the perception of SDF to be more than a food industry and professional peer recognition forum.
Just my opinion of course.
Wallace.


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#17 Simon

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 02:04 PM

For the most part, these three elements are present and encouraged at Saferpak.

Err what do you mean for the most part?

Start dissin my ‘Management Excellence' pal and you'll be heedin for a Glasgy kiss.

Oh dear I think I'm in one of those silly moods again. ;)

It seems to me that, all this talk and suggestions regarding a GQCI really mirrors what Saferpak and the C*#! are merely doing at this time, and it may be time to take a second look at Saferpak regarding, structure and what it currently offers members.
We have a forum at Saferpak and, we Blog, cause great debate, innovate and serve each other within a managed and professional environment. I would say we have what we need here. All we have to do is re-examine, possible reform and re-frame what we are experiencing at this time throughout Saferpak and, "snap" we have a GQCI.

To me a GCQI wouldn't mirror what either SaferPak, the C*#! or an amalgamation of the two are doing or could do. I just read Marc say the C*#! isn't the place for the GCQI, and I am saying this (i.e. saferpak) isn't the place for the GQCI either. Remember we make our living from Food Safety Training and Consultancy. Like Marc I envisage a separate web site built from the ground up, it would have to be completely database driven and would be a major undertaking. That's not to say I wouldn't want to be a part of it - far from it.

Allan is sending me the article to publish on Wednesday morning GMT.

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#18 Wallace Tait

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:58 PM

Err what do you mean for the most part?
Start dissin my ‘Management Excellence’ pal and you’ll be heedin for a Glasgy kiss. Oh dear I think I'm in one of those silly moods again.



Ah yes, :clap:
I miss a good wind up Simon and, that's whay I remain at Saferpak ;)
Have a great weekend.:beer:
Wallace
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#19 Donald Palmer

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 08:35 PM

Disregarding a proverb often repeated by my late grandmother ('Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know'), I answered (with reservation) in the opinion poll, 'YES, I agree'.

Am I interested in a new global institute such as Allan Sayle discusses? Well, I read part one with interest, and look forward to reading part two as well. The truth in this matter, if it exists, will be in the detail.

Presently, I remain pretty disappointed with my ASQ membership. Although ASQ and IQA may currently be legitimate guardian/gatekeeper of the organizational quality body of knowledge (BOK) and continue as such for now, I recognize true quality as residing within the heart of the practitioner, rather than the organization.

At this time, I would not advocate blowing the 'brick and mortar' (BAM) institutes off the face of the globe. However, if ASQ/IQA truly has a monopolistic stranglehold on Q-BOK, then I say healthy competition is the order of the day.

Would it not be possible for the BAM Quality Institute and a Global Quality Cyber Institute to peacefully co-exist? In a perfect world sure! But from where would perfect leadership arise to wear the mantle of authority and responsibility.

I see no Camelot. I see no Arthur. I do however see Mordred in full anticipation of opportunity.


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#20 Simon

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 08:58 PM

Disregarding a proverb often repeated by my late grandmother ('Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know'), I answered (with reservation) in the opinion poll, 'YES, I agree'.

I don't like to disagree with your grandmother Donald - but with a blank canvass one has the opportunity not to redraw the devil (as you call them ;) ).

Am I interested in a new global institute such as Allan Sayle discusses?  Well, I read part one with interest, and look forward to reading part two as well.  The truth in this matter, if it exists, will be in the detail.

Presently, I remain pretty disappointed with my ASQ membership.  Although ASQ and IQA may currently be legitimate guardian/gatekeeper of the organizational quality body of knowledge (BOK) and continue as such for now, I recognize true quality as residing within the heart of the practitioner, rather than the organization.

At this time, I would not advocate blowing the 'brick and mortar' (BAM) institutes off the face of the globe.  However, if ASQ/IQA truly has a monopolistic stranglehold on Q-BOK, then I say healthy competition is the order of the day. 

Would it not be possible for the BAM Quality Institute and a Global Quality Cyber Institute to peacefully co-exist?  In a perfect world sure!  But from where would perfect leadership arise to wear the mantle of authority and responsibility.

I see no Camelot.  I see no Arthur.  I do however see Mordred in full anticipation of opportunity.

Yes we all keenly await part 2 of the article. Who knows where this will lead, perhaps nowhere, maybe somewhere - either way its worth discussing. And thank god we can.

Nice to have you on the forums Donald. :beer:

Regards,
Simon
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#21 allanj

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 09:52 AM

Am I interested in a new global institute such as Allan Sayle discusses?  Well, I read part one with interest, and look forward to reading part two as well.  The truth in this matter, if it exists, will be in the detail.


At this time, I would not advocate blowing the “brick and mortar” (BAM) institutes off the face of the globe.  However, if ASQ/IQA truly has a monopolistic stranglehold on Q-BOK, then I say healthy competition is the order of the day. 

Would it not be possible for the BAM Quality Institute and a Global Quality Cyber Institute to peacefully co-exist?  In a perfect world sure!  But from where would perfect leadership arise to wear the mantle of authority and responsibility.

Thank you for your thoughts, Donald. Part 2 is now with Simon and he is free to make it available to all at Saferpak.

I do not advocate blowing up any of the BAMs. I believe in the free market. If people wish to remain with their national BAM or any other one - that must be their choice. But, as Part 1 and Part 2 of my article show (I hope) there is a market for something new using internet technology to serve us better as we must also serve our employers and clients better in a globally connected world where supply chains encircle the globe.

A new cyber-based global quality institute is inevitable: one cannot accurately predict when it will happen or how. But, I hope Part 2 and especially the survey form in its appendix will be useful in gauging the degree of support and help such a body will get. The greater the help, the sooner will that new Institute be operating.

It is also my earnest hope members of the Saferpak Forum will draw to the attention of their profesional colleagues and contacts the article and encourage them to air their views for it will be the actual quality folk who will and must shape their own new Global Institute, or whatever they elect to call it.

The new Institute must be characterized by a spirit of involvement and giving/ sharing with others to build it.

The traditional BAMs experienced that but in this new age we have the opportunity to embrace so many people from so manhy countries with a collective body of experience, knowledge, materials, information, needs, solutions and so forth, far greater than any single BAM could possibly harness.

Others are using the internet to build worthwhile things (Linux is the classic example and Business Week June 20 2005 is extensive in this discussion). I see no reason why we should not do the same for our profession unfettered by HQs, bureaucracy and so on: and for a far lower cost to participating members, as Part 2 describes.
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#22 jperez

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 04:01 PM

hi all well i know the first thing you think when you read this is this newby doesent know anything but i do have a small thought im not a big person at my companey i dont get 6 figures wel im just a regular employee that just happens to have a lot of input and can get things done no i dont have a collage degree but i do have experience and knowledge of my job well ok lets cut to the chase as a little guy i know that i dont want someone to tell me how to do my job that has never done it i want to put what i have to say out there and let it be seen also recently i started our aib and with that ourhaccp with much thanks to the guru SIMON :thumbup: but why shouldnt the little guy have a say thats why i am all for this new institute the big wigs have there say and so do i and it all gets to the table to see the big picture so if your reading this i would say IM ALL FOR IT count me in what ever i can do to help please let me know i will try to as big a part as i am given :whistle:


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#23 Simon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 07:45 PM

James, everyone's welcome here and everyone's opinion matters. :beer: I'm glad the forums are being of some use to you.

Below is the link to part 2 of the article:
Towards a global cyber institute - Part 2.

Regards,
Simon


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Need food safety advice?
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