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Rancidity in frozen bakery products


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#1 Fayaz

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:26 AM

Hello,
This is the first time i am involved in this forum, i have a problem in my processing. I am manufacturing the frozen bakery products, like croissants, ciabatta, rolls etc. In one of my produt i.e croissant i am getting rancid smell, as far as i know it is caused doe to oxidation of fat, we are using butter in the recipee, i checked for rancidity in butter but it is found good, i wonder what could be the reason now. Could anyone help me for this.
I know this forum is shared by great scientist as well, please helo me out. :helpplease:


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#2 MRios

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 05:42 PM

Hello Fayaz.
I don´t have any scientific info for you, only my experience in a bakery. Butter tends to give off a slightly rancid smell when used in baking. This sounds like a very upscale product you´re making because usually bakeries use margarine that is specially formulated for making millefeuille products (croissant and other types of "flaky" pastry). This margarine usually has a higher melting point so it´s easier to make the croissant dough, and gives you a higher volume. If you still want the butter flavor, maybe you can try adding some flavoring to the dough directly.
Hope this helps.
And if someone could please explain why butter gives a rancid smell in this type of product, I´d love to know.


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#3 Charles.C

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:21 PM

Dear Fayaz,

Regret this is totally outside my knowledge except that I very much enjoy eating croissants.
My first thought was - have you just changed the process or hv you been making this product with butter for a long time already with no problem ? Or a change in the butter supplier ? Or perhaps there is a shortage of butter in the market ? These are Just a few factors which can cause product changes IMEX, unfortunately there are a lot more.

@ MRios. Hv no idea if yr comment is corect but is fascinating reading. :clap: I think perhaps you should ask yr sister for her opinion, she may hv seen a TV program on the subject. :biggrin: BTW, what age range is she in ? (relates to validity of yr parallel post :smile: )

Rgds / Charles.C

PS Fayaz, Welcome to the forum :welcome:

PPS - this thread seems to be in the wrong forum ?? :smile:


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#4 MRios

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:12 AM

Thank you Charles for your sarcasm. I´ve erased the content of my parallel post (because I couldn´t find a way to delete it) as it seems that it doesn´t measure up to what is expected of members of this forum.
I do recall mentioning that all I could offer Fayaz was my experience in baking. I´ve made croissants with both butter and this margarine and the results are the ones I already mentioned.
Maybe you should consider including in the "Before you post" section a part about how people who don´t have the documentation to back up their thoughts or opinions should refrain from posting.


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#5 Charles.C

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:59 AM

Dear MRios,

:oops2: , Very sorry if I hv offended you.

Honestly, I hv absolutely no problem with yr any of yr posts. If you look back in the archives, you will find some far more directly provocative posts which also attempted to inject some levity within the traditional stuff. I think this was indeed the original intention of the General Discussions forum.

If my attempt at mild humour appeared to be destructive sarcasm (which is admittedly a, perhaps regrettably, popular British characteristic), none was intended and the apologies are all mine.

Equally, I am continuously contributing anecdotal opinions as well as documented (also sometimes wrong) ones. That IMHO is totally acceptable for forum content, it all helps to generate comments from possibly more informed readers. I genuinely found yr bakery comments illuminating since my own technical knowledge on the subject is precisely zero.

Please continue yr highly appreciated contributions.

Best Rgds / Charles.C


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Charles.C


#6 Hongyun

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 04:59 AM

Hi MRios,

I believe Charles has no ill-intentions towards the users. :smile:

And to veer back to the main topic, I agree with you that maybe Fayaz should try changing the formula to use margarine. Or better yet, use shortening, as it contains less water and is cheaper.

@Fayaz,

Melting points for margarine and shortening are rather high as it has gone through a process called hydrogenation, though I think most have changed the process to use the Interesterification method due to Trans fat issue. (SaRaRa's the expert here on Interesterification. :smile: )

As for rancidity of butter, I can only guess it could be due to its wide range of melting points in the butter. Maybe the lower melting point components get oxidized faster during baking? Margarine and shortening on the other hand has a more or less stable melting point and thus less prone to oxidation than butter.

If you're selling premium product, maybe you can add Vit E to extend the shelf life?

Then again, as mentioned by Charles, have you been using butter in the past with no problem on rancidity? Was there a change in supplier or method of producing?


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#7 SaRaRa

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 07:48 PM

Hello! :D
Sup Hongyun ?!?
Lets start interesterifying!!! :biggrin:

Well according to the following, MRios is very right.

"Laminated products, for example croissants, Danish and pastry, require two types of fat; in-dough fats that provide the functions of giving lubricity and enhancing eating quality, and roll-in fats that create the flaky layers of products (Lai and Lin, 2006)."

[...]

"Croissant dough is softer therefore requiring a soft roll-in fat. Finished croissants also are a softer eating product requiring fat with low solids. To maintain the desired softness, croissant roll-in fat also usually has an emulsifier to enhance the shelf-life of the finished product. It's not as chewy as Danish nor as firm or with a waxy mouthfeel as puff pastry. Generally the fat going into a croissant will be almost like a table-grade refrigerated margarine with about a 38.8 C (100 F) melting point. These margarines have low solids - they build just enough structure to give croissants the flake. If a shortening with higher solids is used, a very waxy mouthfeel similar to puff pastry will be obtained (Lai and Lin, 2006)."

[...]

"...croissant fats are refrigerated margarines requiring the entire roll-in procedure to be conducted under cool conditions (Lai and Lin, 2006)."

Fayaz you can check more information concerning the above in the following link. I think it can prove to be useful.

Bakery products In: Handbook of Food Science, Technology and Engineering.

Major role of fats and oils in baked products. (Same book, different page)

Solid Fat Index (SFI) of fats commonly used in baking and types of fat and oil for bakery products. (Same book, different page)


Now about the rancid taste... I found the following concerning possible microbial spoilage. I dont think this is the case but I 'll type it down anywayz:

"Spoilage by microbial degradation of fats and oils produces rancidity caused by oxidation or hydrolysis of lipids. Spoiled butter, for example, becomes rancid because of the hydrolysis of butterfat with the production of free fatty acids and glycerol and the accompanying development of undesirable flavours (Atlas, 2006)."

from Handbook of Microbiological Media for the Examination of Food.

Check out the following link. It has information about croissant production. Maybe you can find some similarities and/or differences in the way you produce croissants and then try to figure out what processing step could produce/induce/promote this rancid smell.

Croissant Production In: The Taste of Bread.

Hope I helped a bit.

Cheers! ;)


Edited by SaRaRa, 22 March 2009 - 07:49 PM.

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#8 Simon

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 09:42 PM

Thank you Charles for your sarcasm. I´ve erased the content of my parallel post (because I couldn´t find a way to delete it) as it seems that it doesn´t measure up to what is expected of members of this forum.

I was just about to answer in the alchohol thread and then noticed that you removed your post text. Remember members can discuss anything here, we are all friends, nothing is taboo. :biggrin:
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#9 SaRaRa

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 11:06 AM

Maybe the following can be usefull also...

Layered Doughs

"In many bakery products, fat is layered between sheets and dough, and this is manipulated to make a dough sheet consisting of up to 100 alternating layers of dough and fat. Such roll-in doughs include Danish pastry, puff pastry and croissants. The dough is mixed, divided into pieces of about 10 kg each, then cooled to 5-10 C in a retarder. The cooled dough is rolled out, two to three kgs of fat is spread over part of the sheet and the dough is folded over to cover the fat. The "sandwhich" is then rolled out and folded; this is repeated several times, often with a retarding step included to keep the dough/fat mass cool.
The primary goal during the roll-in process is to preserve the structure of alternate layers of dough and fat. There are several important factors to consider in selecting the correct shortening or margarine for such a process. Some of them are: solid fat index (SFI) and plasticity of the fat; complete melting point of the fat; consistency (softness) of the dough; retarder temperature; number of folds given the dough before returning it to the retarder; and proofing temperature. Many of these factors are unique to a given product in a particular bakery, and they influence the specification for the roll-in fat which gives the best final product in that bakery (Stauffer, 1996)."


Croissants

"A croissant dough is similar to Danish dough, although it generally contains somewhat less sugar and water so it is somewhat firmer at the optimum mixed dough temperature of 20 C. As with Danish, the dough pieces are usually retarded before roll-in is begun. The best quality croissants are produced using unsalted butter for roll-in. The amount used varies from 20 to 35% of dough weight; higher levers give a product that has less volume and flakiness, and is often perceived as greasy in the mouth. The optimum is usually about 25% roll-in fat.
The factors involved in successful processing are similar to those discussed above for Danish pastry. Because butter has a steeper SFI curve than all-purpose shortening (it is much harder at retarder temperatures) more care is required to prevent tearing the dough as it is being rolled. The melting point is lower than that of shortening so proofing temperatures are lower than for Danish. Puff pastry margarine is an acceptable substitute although it does not contribute as much flavor as butter. Since puff pastry margarine has a higher melting point, the proofing may be done at a higher temperature (and for shorter times) if time is a factor (Stauffer, 1996)."


Oxidation

"The rate of oxidation depends on the concentration of dissolved oxygen, the temperature, the presence of prooxidants such as copper and iron, the degree of unsaturation of the fat, and the presence of antioxidants that may retard the onset of oxidation. Compared with many fats, milk fat has a good oxidative stability, because it is high in total saturates, low in polyunsaturates and contains natural antioxidants, principally a-tocopherol.
The development of oxidative rancidity in milk fat is the major determinant of the stability of the fat on storage. Dissolved air in the milk fat can give dissolved oxygen levels of up to 40 ppm at 30 C. In practice, the dissolved oxygen level in the freshly processed milk fat would be about 5 ppm at 45 C, a level sufficient to permit the development of oxidative rancidity, but if the milk fat were allowed to equilibrate with the air, then this level could increase to 33 ppm with a consequent increase in the rate of development of oxidative rancidity. The solubility curve for oxygen in milk fat is a compound of solubility curves for the liquid and solid phases (Figure 1.7, page 28 in the book). Though the solubility decreases with increasing temperature for both phases, the solubility of oxygen in the liquid phase is much higher than for the closely packed solid phase (Hettinga, 1996)."


Clyde E. Stauffer, 1996, Oils and Fats in Bakery Products In: Bailey's Industrial Oil and Fat Products, Volume 3, Edible Oil and Fat Products: Products and Application Technology, Y. H. Hui, Wiley-Interscience Publication.

David Hettinga, 1996, Butter In: Bailey's Industrial Oil and Fat Products, Volume 3, Edible Oil and Fat Products: Products and Application Technology, Y. H. Hui, Wiley-Interscience Publication.


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#10 Charles.C

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 08:56 AM

Dear Sarara,

Some marvellous inputs on the croissant industry :clap: :clap: . Although not sure that I believe the shape was modelled on a symbol from the Turkish flag ! ( http://books.google....141,M1Croissant )

I deduce from all this that operationally butter should work provided that it meets the phys. / chem.criteria as discussed. The most likely cause of rancidity seems to need some further process input from Fayaz ??

Rgds / Charles.C


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#11 Hongyun

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 04:42 AM

Hi Fayaz,

Did the replies you received help solve your problem?

While I was searching for some info here, I found another link that might help delay the onset of rancidity in bakery products.

INOLENS® 12

FYI


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#12 poppysnoss

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 04:36 PM

Hi All.

In a previous life, I was involved with a food manufacturer who was having problems with rancidity in bakery produce. It turned out that they were storing the butter they used at ambient temperature prior to production instead of chilling it.

However, you have already said that the butter is not the issue...therefore this comment is not very constructive in relation to your own problem.


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#13 MRios

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:35 AM

I talked to a baker about this and he said that he´d found this problem when the oven temperature was too high. The croissants might look done on the outside, but they might still have too much moisture inside. This causes a rancid smell / taste.
In this case, if I understand correctly, you parbake your croissants and then freeze them? Could you try a lower temperature and longer baking time before freezing them, in order to get rid of any extra moisture?
Are you baking the croissants as soon as you take them out of the freezer? If not, this could be causing microbial growth and spoilage, like SaRaRa mentioned.
Sorry if I can´t be of much help. I don´t have any experience with frozen bread, as 90% of the bread is made fresh every day in my country. (Freezing equipment is too expensive compared to paying a baker, contrary to what happens in industrialized countries.)


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#14 rachealSCH

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:10 AM

Hi Fayaz,

 

Im facing the same problem as well. Im doing a test on frozen pre proof butter croissant and found out that it is rancid after 1-2 months storing at frozen condition. Have you have any solution by now? Please kindly advice


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#15 FrankNepal

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 09:30 PM

Hi Fayaz,

 

Im facing the same problem as well. Im doing a test on frozen pre proof butter croissant and found out that it is rancid after 1-2 months storing at frozen condition. Have you have any solution by now? Please kindly advice

 

Dear RachealSCH and rest of this wonderful people,

 

I am facing this exact problem:

"frozen pre proof butter croissant and found out that it is rancid after 1-2 months storing at frozen condition". Also the inner part looks like raw dough, even if the outel crust looks cooked properly. Also the size of the final baked croissant is smaller than normal.

 

Please help!!!! I am desperate.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Frank


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#16 Charles.C

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 10:11 PM

Dear RachealSCH and rest of this wonderful people,

 

I am facing this exact problem:

"frozen pre proof butter croissant and found out that it is rancid after 1-2 months storing at frozen condition". Also the inner part looks like raw dough, even if the outel crust looks cooked properly. Also the size of the final baked croissant is smaller than normal.

 

Please help!!!! I am desperate.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Frank

 

Hi FrankNepal,

 

Welcome to the Forum ! :welcome:

 

Maybe Post 13 ?


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#17 FrankNepal

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 10:35 PM

Hi FrankNepal,

 

Welcome to the Forum ! :welcome:

 

Maybe Post 13 ?

 

 

Hi Charles, thank you!

 

I already read all of the posts. Imagine that we are in the frozen prefermentatated croissants for long time, but this is a new problem we have never faced. We have never changed our procedures so this is not the problem. We have an ingredient problem, or fungi??

 

Thank you!


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#18 Charles.C

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 11:12 PM

Hi Charles, thank you!

 

I already read all of the posts. Imagine that we are in the frozen prefermentatated croissants for long time, but this is a new problem we have never faced. We have never changed our procedures so this is not the problem. We have an ingredient problem, or fungi??

 

Thank you!

Hi FrankNepal,

 

My knowledge of the croissants process is totally from this thread.

I would have  thought that any fungal problem would be visually evident.

 

As you say, the first usual self-check is to look for changes in yr own procedure/environment/equipment/documentation, especially regarding any steps which experience / science has shown to be critical to the quality.

 

If there are none, the textbook procedure is to start checking from the beginning. It's obviously quicker if you are lab. monitoring all the inputs but i daresay many bakeries have no lab.

 

If you have an alternative source of ingredient, substitution for a trial lot may be a faster check method.


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#19 Dr Vu

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 01:30 PM

i am not into dough ( unless its $$$$) but  maybe you need to walk the process . you might find something  has changed.. Maybe, as you said- its the ingredients.. maybe its the proofer  ( not working / malfunctioning) maybe its the ovens  not heating properly ar maybe you are laminating or not sheeting the dough too much?

 

 But my advise is work backwards, you might find root causes/. I hope that helps.


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A vu in time , saves nine

#20 Gaston

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:07 AM

Hi Frank Nepal! I am from Uruguay and we are having the same problem. I have been reading a lot of stuff but nothing relevant caome up. Could you solve it?

 

Hi Charles, thank you!

 

I already read all of the posts. Imagine that we are in the frozen prefermentatated croissants for long time, but this is a new problem we have never faced. We have never changed our procedures so this is not the problem. We have an ingredient problem, or fungi??

 

Thank you!


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#21 FrankNepal

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:20 AM

Hi Frank Nepal! I am from Uruguay and we are having the same problem. I have been reading a lot of stuff but nothing relevant caome up. Could you solve it?

 

Hi Gastón. The problem was a flour additive that changed supplier without informing quality dept. and it was not permitted. This caused a chemical reaction giving a rancid smell on the product. What company do you work for in Uruguay??


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#22 Gaston

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:33 AM

Thank you FrankNepal! I work for the University and I received this question from a company. Do you know which was the flour additive? 

 

Hi Gastón. The problem was a flour additive that changed supplier without informing quality dept. and it was not permitted. This caused a chemical reaction giving a rancid smell on the product. What company do you work for in Uruguay??


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#23 FrankNepal

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:29 PM

Thank you FrankNepal! I work for the University and I received this question from a company. Do you know which was the flour additive? 

 

Hi Gaston, I cannot give you that information because is confidential but if you tell me what is the company´s name maybe I can help you better as we work with some food industries in Uruguay.

 

Cheers


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#24 Gaston

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 02:35 PM

The name of the company is also confidential. Sorry about that and thank you for the information!

 

Hi Gaston, I cannot give you that information because is confidential but if you tell me what is the company´s name maybe I can help you better as we work with some food industries in Uruguay.

 

Cheers


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