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#1 Snitzel

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 10:32 AM

I would like to ask if anybody has any experience with high pressure proccessing (meat industry preferably), before getting into details


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#2 Simon

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 07:49 PM

I would like to ask if anybody has any experience with high pressure proccessing (meat industry preferably), before getting into details

Has anyone got experience in this area?
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#3 Hongyun

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 12:40 AM

Hi Snitzel,

Kind of specialized for your job, no?

I remembered posting an article from IFT on HPP before. But it is kind of an introduction to the system rather than a detailed report on the use of HPP.

But from the article, it seems like the cost of operation and machine are reducing, which is good! This method also seems like a good process to reduce batcerial load for meat products, though for soft fruits, this method might not be so idea... unless u want to make puree out of it.


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#4 Jason H.Z.C.

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 08:09 AM

Dear all,

I have not heard of a high pressure machine in Chinese industry. As I know, this high-tech(may be in some developed country it is already become a simple technique) could only be realised in university. Fortunately, my subject was research the effectiveness of the high pressure on the property and colour of pig small intestine casing during my school time. I hope what I learned could be useful to you.

The most obviousely advantage of high pressure on food is that it could eliminate some kinds of microoganism without affect the flavour and taste of the food. (I remembered the effectiveness on gram '+' bacterial is more remarkable than the effectiveness on gram '-' bacterial) The protein in such food will be converted after the high pressure process, always with the changes on the third level or forth level of the converted protein. Some pressure (above 200 MPA)could also lead to changing the texture of meat or sausage. always the firmness is enhanced and the meat becomes more flexible. In Chinese we use a indicator called chewness to measure the difference between the meat with or without high pressure process.

In our experiment, the parameters of high pressure process under study were pressure level(0 to 600MPA with the 100MPA grade between each two neighbors) , temperature at the equivalent pressure(20 to 45 degree centigrade with the 5 degree centigrade between each two neighbors) and the holding time during the targeting pressure (5 to 30 min with 5 min grade between each two neighbors). The results were higher pressure could make colour of the casing become lighter as well as enhance the firmness of the casing.

All I known is present here, in addition, the Japanese and Spanish is good at researching the high pressure process on food stuff. Maybe you can obtain more information from the Japanese & Spanish domestic journal, as well as from globle journal.

If some of my opinions are wrong, please don't hesitate to point it out.

Jason


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#5 Biss

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 11:23 AM

Hi,

in our industry extraction @ 400 bar pressure is done, but its not meat !


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#6 Simon

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 07:42 AM

Snitzel are the replies enough for you to provide further details and enter into more discussions?


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#7 rosie

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 10:56 AM

Hi

I have used HPP for apple slices - the AFBI in Belfast have a kit and will do trials on a commercial basis for companies - I know the folk up there. If you want further details let me know - in the first instance check out the website - www.afbini.gov.uk

Rosie


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#8 Snitzel

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:58 AM

Sorry for the late reply, been very busy at work....
Anyway, we have 2 HPP machines used for post packaging pasteurisation of ready to eat processed meat products (saucages, sliced cured meat prosucts etc).
I want to use the HPP to pasteurise chicken nuggets (breaded pieces of chicken) -after they are thermaly processed, and I am getting very strange micro results. If anybody had any experience in the field I would appreciate any info.

PS: I really find it - to say the least- annoying, that even though the technology exists and is used in the food industry for many years almost all the reasearch done (mostly by universities) is of no actual use - at least in my field....but thats a completely different discussion...


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#9 GMO

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 01:49 PM

I've worked on some post pack pasteurised ready meals.

We designed the program using a datalogger logging at different places in the racks to ensure we were picking up cool spots. When we went into production we also then datalogged each cook, otherwise I couldn't see how I could be 100% sure that the process had worked because we'd had some technical problems with the retort.

What are you targetting? I think the accepted target is normally 90oC for 10 minutes. We also retorted the meals after cooking which was what was recommended by the CCFRA and it seems like you're doing the same. We got the CCFRA to help validate it. It might be worth checking how much that would cost if you're members.

Have you checked the initial cooking process to make sure that's effective? Are you sealing the packs prior to retorting? How are your seals? We did do some immersion testing to check ours as it was key. It also surprised me that leakers didn't always explode in the retort as I expected them to.

I just thought, maybe it's not all that surprising that there's not much that's been published because most companies will design processes for their product and so will not want to publish sensitive information. I don't think the general population would like it if they realised what processes some foods go through. It makes me sad when I see retorted ready meals sold with some kind of "freshness" claim when the shelf life could be a month!


Edited by GMO, 13 June 2009 - 01:54 PM.

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#10 Snitzel

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 08:53 AM

sorry for the irrelevant question, but since english is not my mother tongue, what do you mean by "retorting"??


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#11 Hongyun

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 03:48 PM

Hi Snitzel,

I think maybe GMO's mixed up between the two processes. HPP uses high pressure and sometimes, coupled with mild heat treatment to enhance the preservation effect.

Retort, on the other hand, submerges the product (already in retort pouches/can) in hot water to inactivate spoilage bacteria. The process sometimes (or always? need confirmation from GMO) make use of pressure within the tightly-sealed vessel to bring the temperature of water to above 100°C. Though I believe the pressure is not as much as the HPP method.

You may like to read more here.

You mentioned that you find strange micro results after the thermally processed nuggets were pasteurized? Same questions as GMO, are you sure the funny results don't come from the initial cooking? e.g. insufficient cooking time/temperature before using HPP?

Here is another technical article on the effects of HPP on spores.


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#12 AS NUR

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 01:21 AM

IMO... we use HPP process for my product.. in term of micro growth we use heating process to reduce (kill) it.. so.. as mentioned by HOngyun and GMO.. i agree to control your heating process to reduce micro...
If you already control your heating process.. but the micro contamination still occur, you have to control the cleaning and sanitzing process in your system.. you must make sure that your cleaning and sanitizing is enough to clean soil and micro...


hope my opinion can help you...


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#13 Snitzel

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 10:21 AM

well the results I have are a bit ambiguous...on the plates before and after heat treatment I am not getting the same bugs...
I' ve established a more thorough sampling plan and also sent the intial colonies for identification (PCR)...hopefully next week I will have more info.
Thanks for all the responses


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#14 SaRaRa

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 11:59 PM

Hey there!

I 've made a quick search about HPP of meat. Here are some links. I hope they prove to be useful.

High Pressure Processing of Meat

Advanced Decontamination Technologies: High Hydrostatic Pressure on Meat Products

Pressure Processing of Meat Products

High Pressure Processing of Foods

Industrial-Scale High Pressure Processing of Foods

High Pressure Processing

High Pressure Processing

High Pressure Processing

Pressure effects on Microorganisms

Food Sterilization by combining High Pressure and Thermal Energy

Novel Food Processing Technologies



Cheers!


Philip


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