12 replies to this topic

[V1ncenso]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some help again in preparation for our forthcoming ISO 22000 certification audit. Section 13.3 of PAS 220:2008 gives requirements in relation to staff canteens and designated eating areas. The question (or problem) I have is whether operators can be allowed to eat in locker areas?

To let you understand, our company blends and bottles whisky therefore due to the alcoholic nature of our product, a lot of the food safety bacteria and hygiene related requirements do not fully apply to us as opposed to they would say a bakery or raw food handlers. We are more concerned with physical contamination in our end product (bottles) therefore it can be frustrating when people question why we have to implement some of the requirements when our overall risk is so low.

Anyway, our blending process (which prepares the whisky for bottling) is quite a manual and physical job as operators can be handling casks all day therefore work wear, hands etc get dirty easily. The actual risk to the product however in this part of the process is low as the spirit is contained in vats. Although we have a canteen, some operators in this department tend to eat and drink in their locker room which is located outside this main processing area.

Is it okay to class this a designated eating area based on risk assessment or should it be that no food and drink are allowed in locker areas whatsoever?

I'd be grateful to find out what your thoughts are on this or if an external auditor would allow this.

Thanks in advance.

Vincent

[GMO]

I would say no due to the pest risk. Allow eating in that area and then you have food debris and food left in lockers (for months sometimes) and a lovely little banquet for rats.

[Charles.C]

Dear V1ncenso,

I deduce from yr post that the locker room provides direct access to the Production floor ?

IMEX this is not conventional and would relate (upwards) to the risk as per GMO's post.

Regardless, in the general way, I hv many times met factories (not in UK) which allowed storage (but never consumption) of food in non-directly connected lockers, due often i suspect to lack of specific official regulations / difficulty in enforcement rather than approval.

Rgds / Charles.C

[gianca68]

Hello, this is my first post. Sorry for my english (in case of errors ), I will try to improve it!

I have a very similar problem: there is someone in production who loves take his food (generally one sandwich) in an office near the production area.

Particularly, the office opens on a corridor that leads to the production area, and there are no contact with ingredients (we make flavour and natural alcoholic and lipo extracts, with no risk for the final products: the risk is higher for the operator that manipulate the spices...).

Is it ok to allow this use of the office?
Thank you in advance!

[Simon]

Hello, this is my first post. Sorry for my english (in case of errors ), I will try to improve it!

I have a very similar problem: there is someone in production who loves take his food (generally one sandwich) in an office near the production area.

Particularly, the office opens on a corridor that leads to the production area, and there are no contact with ingredients (we make flavour and natural alcoholic and lipo extracts, with no risk for the final products: the risk is higher for the operator that manipulate the spices...).

Is it ok to allow this use of the office?
Thank you in advance!

Welcome to the forums Gianca, your English is great. I would want to know what your barrier hygiene procedures are before entering production after eating? For example must operators wash hands, change clothing etc. If you do have barrier hygiene procedures and these can (and are) all operated by the fellow in the office then it is not such an issue. Also is there any risk from food debris in the office?

What are your rules?
Do you follow any standard e.g. BRC?

[V1ncenso]

Thanks for your replies.

I had thought about the pest risk as being a justified reason for not eating in locker areas.

Charles.C - The locker area I am referring to does not open directly on to the production area - it is closeby but is segregated by a seperate walkway. Does this make any difference?

From peoples experience of UK based companies, have you experienced any that allow food and drink in locker areas? Would this be regarded a non conformance to this or any food safety related standard?

I know the best thing to do would be to not allow (which I would be comfortable with) this but other than potentialy encouraging pest activity, it is difficult trying to change opinion in an area where the actual risk to the product is low.

Vincent

[GMO]

I don't know of any UK food processors who allow this. I would also say that if you allow it the pest risk alone is significant enough to say "no". Also despite the low risk nature of your product, you would still exclude infected handlers I assume? By allowing eating in an area with no refrigerated storage you're encouraging poor food safety practices, e.g. storing sandwiches in a locker and so encouraging more illness and absenteeism.

[Rosemary4]

We are not working to this standard but BRC/IoP. An examination of lockers and bins took place during our audit and one occasion some sweet wrappers were found leading to a non-conformance. The secnd and last time he found anything was when he opened a locker with a key left in the lock and found a jar of coffee leading to another ncr.

After that we provided some small lockers in the canteen, put notices up and everyone knows the rules and abides by them. Spot checks are undertaken.

[Charles.C]

Dear V1ncenso,

The locker area I am referring to does not open directly on to the production area - it is closeby but is segregated by a seperate walkway. Does this make any difference?

Yr original question was “eating” and this seems to have a consensus – Not acceptable under any circumstances. A direct connection would hv generated a NCR on its own IMO, and perhaps lifted an “eating” activity from serious to critical if the facility was for RTE products.

I don’t think I hv ever seen a specific list of items which are not allowed to be stored in lockers. Don’t recall seeing the topic in Standards like BRC either (??). As noted by previous poster, unfortunate events can occur from permitting food storage in addition to the undeniable objection regarding pest attraction. I presume the list would also include firearms, knives, medicines, gold, jewelry ?? (IMEX, the locker room has always been a favorite for inspectorial snooping ).

Banning food in lockers is logical but circumvention can be expected due to human nature (Greed?).

Rgds / Charles.C

[gianca68]

Welcome to the forums Gianca, your English is great. I would want to know what your barrier hygiene procedures are before entering production after eating? For example must operators wash hands, change clothing etc. If you do have barrier hygiene procedures and these can (and are) all operated by the fellow in the office then it is not such an issue. Also is there any risk from food debris in the office?

What are your rules?
Do you follow any standard e.g. BRC?

Thank you for your answer.

My question is for ISO 22000. I try to explain what can happen.

Normally, operators in production area wear white coats, hats and disposable gloves. A closet for personal white coats is in a pre-area that lead to the office. Operators leave their coats in the closet and can enter in the office.

After eating sandwiches, they pass in the pre-area, wear the coats again, wash their hands in a sink in the corridor, pass through a “clean shoes” (I don’t know the exact word ) and enter in production area again.

I don’t see risk with this procedure, but I have no experience in this kind of audit.



What do you think about?

Thank you again!

[Simon]

Thank you for your answer.

My question is for ISO 22000. I try to explain what can happen.

Normally, operators in production area wear white coats, hats and disposable gloves. A closet for personal white coats is in a pre-area that lead to the office. Operators leave their coats in the closet and can enter in the office.

After eating sandwiches, they pass in the pre-area, wear the coats again, wash their hands in a sink in the corridor, pass through a “clean shoes” (I don’t know the exact word ) and enter in production area again.

I don’t see risk with this procedure, but I have no experience in this kind of audit.



What do you think about?

Thank you again!

What about hairnets, what do they do with those, remove them and put them back on, dipose and get new afte reating?

Also what about the food storage / waste control of foodstuffs in the office. How do you manage that?

[gianca68]

a

What about hairnets, what do they do with those, remove them and put them back on, dipose and get new afte reating?

Also what about the food storage / waste control of foodstuffs in the office. How do you manage that?

Hello Simon, sorry but in the last days I was very very busy, and I haven't seen your answer.

Actually, the same hairnet is used before and after eating, kept in a pocket of the white coat putted in the closet already mentioned, because our criterion is that there is not an exit from production.
Food in the office is kept in a desk drawer, and the only waste prodcut is the envelope of the food (i.e. cracker, sandwich) that is thrown into a normal office trash.
The emptying of office trash is covered by an outside contractor responsible for cleaning office.

Do you think that this procedure can be correct?

Thank you in advance again!

[Simon]

a

Hello Simon, sorry but in the last days I was very very busy, and I haven't seen your answer.

Actually, the same hairnet is used before and after eating, kept in a pocket of the white coat putted in the closet already mentioned, because our criterion is that there is not an exit from production.
Food in the office is kept in a desk drawer, and the only waste prodcut is the envelope of the food (i.e. cracker, sandwich) that is thrown into a normal office trash.
The emptying of office trash is covered by an outside contractor responsible for cleaning office.

Do you think that this procedure can be correct?

Thank you in advance again!

Judging by everything you have said there is minimal risk and you may not get a nonconfomity from an auditor, but do you really want to argue the case for this person. Make them go to the canteen with the rest of the workers, set an example.