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Time required for auditing according to BRC food standard

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saguym

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 05:46 PM

Hi all,
According to BRC food a full BRC food audit has to take one and half days, unless there are acceptable specific condition to shorten this period.
In many cases this is a problem for the audetee, who has to dedicate resources time and people to the two audit days.
My question is if there is a possibility that the plant will be audited by two auditors at the same time and the audit will be finlased in 3/4 of a day, saving time and not affecting the performance. Does anyone know BRC position to this issue ?
We shold bear in mind that retailers audits were conducted by more than one auditor, si IMO this should be allowed and encouraged by the auditing company as wel as by the audetee.
Shall appreciate any information.

Tks

Saguym



Brian Fowler

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 06:47 PM

Hi Saguym
There should be no problem as the standard time is in Man-days. The trend is to spend more time on the production floor (5 hours minimum)and less time on documentation especially on second, third, fourth audits.
Brian

Hi all,
According to BRC food a full BRC food audit has to take one and half days, unless there are acceptable specific condition to shorten this period.
In many cases this is a problem for the audetee, who has to dedicate resources time and people to the two audit days.
My question is if there is a possibility that the plant will be audited by two auditors at the same time and the audit will be finlased in 3/4 of a day, saving time and not affecting the performance. Does anyone know BRC position to this issue ?
We shold bear in mind that retailers audits were conducted by more than one auditor, si IMO this should be allowed and encouraged by the auditing company as wel as by the audetee.
Shall appreciate any information.

Tks

Saguym





saguym

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 01:36 AM

Hi Saguym
There should be no problem as the standard time is in Man-days. The trend is to spend more time on the production floor (5 hours minimum)and less time on documentation especially on second, third, fourth audits.
Brian






Thanks Brian,


lizzy23

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 02:00 PM

Thanks Brian,


In theory i would have thought no problem, however i would have thought the cost would be prohibitive, as both auditors would want paying


MJH

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:53 PM

There is a chance that this approach would take slightly longer and cause more man days. In my experience auditors can cut the time down by both getting a feeling for the company and being able to streamline the audit, as well as assessing several clauses using one or two exercises or paper trails. If there are two auditors then each will have to be as concientious as the other in order to do the audit justice and it may take them longer in total. There is also the chance that while things may be double checked, things may also be over-looked by one auditor who assumes the other will have checked it.



redchariot

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 06:11 PM

I don't know about anybody else, but the BRC audit is the MOST important audit of the year where I work; it is by no means the toughest audit (some of the supermarkets have far tougher audits) but if you do badly in the BRC audit e.g you suddenly were graded B after having Grade A for a number of years, you can expect that the supermarkets (or other major customers) to be showing up unannounced for their own audits shortly after.

What I am trying to say is that it is a very important 1.5 days once a year and that a BRC auditor will expect full attention at all times; in fact if he/she feels that he is not getting adequate committment during an audit, that will be a non-conformance in itself. So, you really have to grin and bear it; free up time for the audit by for example delegating normal day to day tasks to somebody else. If you are like us, you probably spend several days going through paperwork, procedures etc ahead of the audit, so it is not really just the 1.5 days anyway



Brian Fowler

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 08:14 PM

There is a chance that this approach would take slightly longer and cause more man days. In my experience auditors can cut the time down by both getting a feeling for the company and being able to streamline the audit, as well as assessing several clauses using one or two exercises or paper trails. If there are two auditors then each will have to be as concientious as the other in order to do the audit justice and it may take them longer in total. There is also the chance that while things may be double checked, things may also be over-looked by one auditor who assumes the other will have checked it.

I cannot fully agree with you Matthew.
It is down to the Lead auditor to plan the job properly so that there is no duplication of effort. The work should be divided to ensure effective use of each auditor. We auditors are always conscientious! whether alone or in groups.
If the 1.5 to 2 days is completed in one calendar day by two men on site, there will not be an overnight stay plus expenses.




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saguym

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 05:36 PM

Brian'
I am of the same opinion as yours.
Our experience showed (In ISO 9000, ISO 14000 ISO 22000 etc ) that two editors for one day are more efficient than one auditor for two days



Miroslav Suska

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 06:00 PM

Hi All,

there is new BRC position statement circulated to CB's this week to define requirements for audit duration calculation. Similarly as for IFS, the parameters would be number of employees (e.g. 1-50, 51-500 etc.), size of site and number of HACCP studies. The statement also clarify the use of audit team of two auditors (for example one auditor two days is equal to two auditors one day).

Kind regards,
Miroslav



saguym

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:47 PM

This is a very important information Miroslav. Can you attach the official circular you refer to, so we can start making the necesary preparations and calculations for the new situation

Best regards,

Saguym



Tony-C

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 06:57 AM

I cannot fully agree with you Matthew.
It is down to the Lead auditor to plan the job properly so that there is no duplication of effort. The work should be divided to ensure effective use of each auditor. We auditors are always conscientious! whether alone or in groups.
If the 1.5 to 2 days is completed in one calendar day by two men on site, there will not be an overnight stay plus expenses.


Maybe twice the travelling expenses so could be swings and roundabouts. From a personal view I would prefer to get the audit done in one day.

Regards,

Tony




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