13 replies to this topic

[Jomy Abraham]

Do anyone help me to get a reference standard for thawing temperature-time combinations?
For example- std to fix the critical limit as 4 deg C for 24 hours for poultry..something similar to this. I didnt see any time restrictions in Codex.

Regards
Jomy Abraham

[Charles.C]

Dear Jomy Abraham,

I can recall another recent thread on this forum discussing minimisation of thawing times / temperature control requirements. Maybe worth searching.

Have never seen a graph of the kind you mention but the principle is presumably to prioritise first on maintenance of a (hopefully) "safe" frozen original or prevent the growth of existing bacteria/pathogens if not "safe". Followed by avoiding deteriorisation of relevant non-safety related but "quality" significant characteristics.

The ability to comply with safety requirements will presumably first relate to temperature control and if this is not fully observed, to the time factor. And obviously the actual procedure used.

Few examples illustrating possibilities below -

Why can't you thaw meat at room temperature? I do. Will it do anything to me or my kids?
Frozen meats should never be defrosted at room temperature. When foods are defrosted at room temperature the surface of the food can quickly warm up above 4C/40F. If held above this temperature for more than two hours, the potential for harmful microorganisms or their toxins to multiply increases, which can lead to foodborne illness when consumed. Those at highest risk for foodborne illness include infants and young children, pregnant woman, older adults and people with weakened immune systems.

What's the best way to thaw meat? My boyfriend thawed some pork and steak in the microwave 3 days ago -- good idea or bad?

The safest way to thaw meat is in a refrigerator. When defrosting by microwave, food often starts to cook, creating warm spots where bacteria could potentially grow. It is therefore recommended that food defrosted in a microwave be cooked immediately. It can then be consumed or stored in the fridge for later use.

http://www.canfightbac.org/cpcfse/en/cookwell/ask/freeze_thaw/#579


 thawing frozen eggs.png   32.82KB   34 downloads
( striking data on bacterial increase vs method of thaw)

http://www.ehow.com/...und-turkey.html
(various methods / suggested times involved but, as far as I could see, no discussion of limits)

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jason H.Z.C.]

Hi Jomy,

I have no idea that if I have the right memery.

In my last factory. Frozen beef block, frozen pork block are required thawed in air with 4 degree celius and the thawing period of 24-48 hrs. If they are required to be thawed in water the temp. is up to 10 degree celius, and the thawing time is up to 2 hrs.

I am not sure very much. Just for you reference.

Best regards,

Jason

[Jomy Abraham]

Thx Jason.
Codex recomended thawing at 4 Deg c, Running water at 21 Deg c and thawing in micro wave...But time is not specified. In order to validate the process, I was searching for some reference standards...

Currently we are following 4 deg C - 24 hrs time

Do you have any expereince of thawing at 4 Deg C - 12 hrs time or below?

Regards
Jomy Abraham

Hi Jomy,

I have no idea that if I have the right memery.

In my last factory. Frozen beef block, frozen pork block are required thawed in air with 4 degree celius and the thawing period of 24-48 hrs. If they are required to be thawed in water the temp. is up to 10 degree celius, and the thawing time is up to 2 hrs.

I am not sure very much. Just for you reference.

Best regards,

Jason

[Dr Ajay Shah]

HI jomy,

You might find some information on this from "Campden Chorleywood Food Research Association in UK" or" Leatherhead Food Research Association in UK and they may point you in the right directionas to who may have the right information that you are seeking.

Good luck

Ajay Shah

[GMO]

Thawing units can be used which regularly raise the temperature above 4 degrees reducing the temperature as the thawing continues to avoid warm surfaces. Otherwise your process just takes too long with some products. I do this at home as well, start out of the fridge then move into the fridge as the process continues.

You can purchase or hire thawing / tempering units with preset skin / surface and core temperatures which you can measure using probes. These get significantly higher than 4 degrees. (Have a look at the graph on the attached link!)

Dawson defrost unit


The idea is the temperature and airspeed are high when the defrosting begins but the unit programme is designed (and self monitors normally) so that a preset surface temperature is not exceeded; here they went for 10 degrees, you might want to chose 8 (personally with raw meat I think 4 is a little cautious but if cooked it's probably sensible). Then the temperature is lowered so the surface temperature doesn't get out of control while the core defrosts, then reverts to a chiller.

They're good pieces of kit but do need a bit of validation work up front to design the programme IME.

[Jomy Abraham]

Dr.Singh/GMO

Thx for your inputs. I always likes to challenge the auditors in a healthyway. If I want to set the thawing temperatures ( CL) as 4 Deg C for 72 hours will Food safety auditors permlts. If they oppose it due to prolonged time sets, what should be the set time ( they may say 24 hr or 48 hrs). If yes, shall I get the refernece document to confirm it as 48 hrs or 24 hrs at 4 Deg c...

If I set 4 deg C for 24 hours, Auditors may be happy..But I am validated it based on microbial analysis. I am still searching for some valid ref stds from EU, USFDA, codex etc....Will try the below links...

thnk u

jomy

Thawing units can be used which regularly raise the temperature above 4 degrees reducing the temperature as the thawing continues to avoid warm surfaces. Otherwise your process just takes too long with some products. I do this at home as well, start out of the fridge then move into the fridge as the process continues.

You can purchase or hire thawing / tempering units with preset skin / surface and core temperatures which you can measure using probes. These get significantly higher than 4 degrees. (Have a look at the graph on the attached link!)

Dawson defrost unit


The idea is the temperature and airspeed are high when the defrosting begins but the unit programme is designed (and self monitors normally) so that a preset surface temperature is not exceeded; here they went for 10 degrees, you might want to chose 8 (personally with raw meat I think 4 is a little cautious but if cooked it's probably sensible). Then the temperature is lowered so the surface temperature doesn't get out of control while the core defrosts, then reverts to a chiller.

They're good pieces of kit but do need a bit of validation work up front to design the programme IME.

[Charles.C]

Dear GMO,

Interesting link you posted.

Close temperature control to within 0.1°c can be achieved.

I'll believe that when I see it.
(Or do they mean the thermometer can be read to 0.1 degC)

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jason H.Z.C.]

Thx Jason.
Codex recomended thawing at 4 Deg c, Running water at 21 Deg c and thawing in micro wave...But time is not specified. In order to validate the process, I was searching for some reference standards...

Currently we are following 4 deg C - 24 hrs time

Do you have any expereince of thawing at 4 Deg C - 12 hrs time or below?

Regards
Jomy Abraham

Hi Jomy,

In my experience, combination of 4 degree C + 12 hrs thawing for meat blocks is not easily done. In my last factory, besides the microbiological parameters, texture parameters are also set. After the thawing process, the meat is minced by machine. If the hardness of the meat block is high. The blade of the machine will be easily broken.

Also the distance between the meat blocks placing on the shelves is another important factor to determine the thawing time. I have the experience that after 72 hrs, the meat blocks are still in frozen situation, because they are too closed to each other.

Lastly the volume of the thawing room must be adequate for thawing activity. If too much blocks placed in the thawing room, the time of thawing is definitely prolonged.

About the water thawing method, I am sorry I did not meet this case too much when I was in meat factory. Because my factory requires the air thawing is always the firstly considered method due to the loss of water soluble nutrions from meat and the lower meat texture level by water thawing method. We only initiated such method when an emergency order is required by management.

By the way, workers in factory prefer water thawing than air thawing Because it is more quick and could let them finish the whole work earlier.

Best regards,

Jason

[SS2010]

Dear Jomy,
m not too sure ,but this reference may be helpful to you!!

Attached Files

•  Section 3-thawing frozen food-2.pdf   95.54KB   251 downloads

[nitinpalia]

CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE TIME TEMPERATURE RELATIONSHIP FOR THAWING OF FROZEN MEAT PRODUCTS.

[Charles.C]

CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE TIME TEMPERATURE RELATIONSHIP FOR THAWING OF FROZEN MEAT PRODUCTS.

 

CONTEXT ??

[nitinpalia]

CONTEXT ??

[nitinpalia]

The time temperature graph chart data for frozen meat and chicken items. Thawing details for thawing of frozen meat items.