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Does a trainer of internal auditors need formal training?


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#1 h@select

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:29 PM

I am just curious to know if the person training people to do internal audits has to have formal training? Is it required for SQF or is there some other way to prove you can train them without formal training and a certificate?


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#2 GMO

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:05 PM

Not sure about SQF but certainly I have had audit training and feel competent to train others how to audit. I would say, if you have someone who is a good auditor, good trainer and has some formal training; why not train in house?

Unless the standard specifically says that the auditors should be trained formally by an external agency, I see no reason why you can't take this approach.


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#3 esquef

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:10 PM

The SQF 2000 code (4.5.5.2) states that "Staff conducting internal audits shall be trained in internal audit procedures".

Like most things in SQF this is open to some interpretation. Our auditor said that when you interpret, your interpretation has to be credible. I'd suggest you have a person (probably you if you're the SQF Practitioner) get some training, either a 2 or 3 day class or even a good on-line training course, get a training certificate and design a training program (ex. a solid PowerPoint presentation and a two or three hour in-house training session). If you can show the auditor verification that you've recieved formal training (certificate) and show verification of your session (sign in list) you should be good to go. He/she will likely want to take a look at your presentation to verify that you have the knowledge of what is expected of 4.5.5 - Internal Audits so it should be solid.

(try to get as many people trained as possible; auditing an entire GFSI approved food safety quality system
is monumental, and you'll have a better chance of success if you have a large pool of auditors to pull from)

Hope that helps a little,
esquef


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#4 h@select

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:44 PM

Can the SQF practitioner train other people to do internal audits if they haven't had formal training themselves?


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#5 GMO

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:48 PM

Can the SQF practitioner train other people to do internal audits if they haven't had formal training themselves?


IMO, although not familiar with SQF, I would suspect not. How can you prove the trainer is competent to train otherwise?
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#6 esquef

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:51 PM

Can the SQF practitioner train other people to do internal audits if they haven't had formal training themselves?



In my experience, no. Our auditor wanted to see proof that the trainer (me in my case) had a certificate of auditing training. But ultimately it all boils down to what your auditor is prepared to accept.
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#7 MCIAN

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:47 AM

I agree with GMO. You need to be trained first before you can train. You should be able to prove your competence both as a trainer, as an internal auditor and as an SQF practitioner. Otherwise, how would you know that you are teaching the right things?


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#8 Rosemary4

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:04 AM

IMO the answer is yes!

In a previous job/role, I was an internal auditor and then undertook a lead auditor course to support the company audit team. Since then I have audited in several companies. When I joined my current company, a packaging BRC certified company, I brought in an auditor from the certifying board to train all our four internal auditors (small company of 49 employees). This was to enable me (and the others) to understand the requirements of BRC more, having never worked with anything other than ISO Standards before. It was also refresher training.

When we wanted to give more people the opportunity to become audtors I contacted our certifying board and asked them if I could train the people myself. The answer was yes and I had this in writing to demonstrate approval should we be queried on it on the day of the audit. I used the notes from an audit course as a basis for the training and brought in the criteria from the Standard as an opportunity for deciding on audit questions. I am confident that these 'guys' can audit to the correct standard and I shadow them regularly to ensure standards are maintained.


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#9 QATim

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:21 PM

The SQF auditor is no longer required to have a SQF certification as long as they can prove competincy to the auditor of the SQF program. Training is always a good thing so if you have the opportunity then I would take a class on internal auditing. As long as you have a sound internal audit procedure and are confident in training others you should be fine.


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#10 HACCP Mentor

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:15 AM

In Australia, trainers are required to have the suitable qualification / competency certificate (TAE, TAA or Certificate IV in Training and Assessment) when working for any training authority. From site based / in-house training, as others have mentioned, it comes down to providing the auditor evidence that the training that you have delivered has been effective in achieving your outcome.

As a BRC and SQF certification auditor, when I find issues that should have clearly been identified throught the internal audit process, I then start to examine the competency of the internal auditors and how/when and by who they were trained.


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#11 Katja

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:09 PM

Can the SQF practitioner train other people to do internal audits if they haven't had formal training themselves?


It really depends on the auditor but from our experience No. Our SQF implementation consultant company did our training and we needed to show that they had the credentials and certificate of internal auditing tyraining to be able to teach us.. Now that we have the course i think we can demonstarte that we are knowledgeable in our ability to train others.
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#12 Dr Vu

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:52 PM

a blind man can not lead..... thats what an auditor told me...


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#13 GMO

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:49 AM

a blind man can not lead..... thats what an auditor told me...



If taken literally, that auditor could be facing a disciplinary! As someone who is partially sighted in one eye am I the only person who's offended by that???
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#14 Katja

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 01:09 PM

a blind man can not lead..... thats what an auditor told me...


I think we must have had the same auditor...sounds like something he would say and he lives in mississauga
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#15 Dr Vu

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:26 PM

Katja.. i think so too.. lol


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#16 Marshenko

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:38 PM

Okay ... so say one is the SQF Practitioner and would like to take a course that provides some sort of documentation (certificate) regarding the completion of auditor training.
Say this particular person can't sneak out of his/her office at all and would prefer to take this course online.
Say that this person lives in the United States and just added a cool new avatar to his/her profile...

What would others suggest?


Edited by Marshenko, 05 July 2012 - 03:38 PM.

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#17 Dr Vu

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:17 PM

tell this particular person thats this should work.As long as there is a certificate, auditor wont ask for trancsripts etc...This SQF practitioner is safe


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#18 Marshenko

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:26 AM

Let me rephrase:

Are there any places online that folks might recommend?


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#19 Dr Vu

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:39 PM

do you have a $$ cap?


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#20 Marshenko

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:13 PM

Its not my money so .... not particularly :)
Options are always good though.


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#21 Dr Vu

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:09 PM

SAIGLOBAL has one and its $700.. i will check more for you


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#22 Marshenko

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:05 PM

Would this suffice?


https://www.sailearn...uditor_Training


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#23 Dr Vu

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:21 PM

yes thats what we did a webinar with certificates for the auditing team..


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#24 monie

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 04:33 PM

I found an internal audit course online that is free

 

http://www.qualitygu.../view.php?id=11


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#25 ncwingnut

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:04 AM

As far as an auditor - I had to show that I had formal auditor training.  I have and ASQ Quality Auditor certificate (American Society for Quality).  I am the only certified auditor in the facility and I can train other people to audit.  Code states that staff conducting audits shall be trained on procedures.  The way we interpreted it, as did our SQF auditor, is that the person performing audits had to have formal training.

 

As far as SQF Practitioner, I had the practitioner training, plus I took an advanced practitioner course at last year's SQF conference.  But, that's no longer required.


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