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Unannounced Audits - are they on the rise?

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#1 Simon

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:10 PM

Somehow I ended up looking at this old topic from August 2009

 

I think that was prior to the advent of BRC unannounced audits (maybe it was my idea).  Anyway that's history BRC now have an unannounced audit option for the brave and confident.  We also know about Tesco PIU audits.

 

I wondered though is this a growth area?

 

How many customer / 3rd party audits are unannounced or have an unannounced option?

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Simon


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#2 esquef

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:19 PM

Hi Simon,

While not technically a 2nd or 3rd party audit, FDA inspections are unannounced (and such a joy) ;./


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#3 Simon

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:43 PM

Oh yes, that's a biggie.  

What's the frequency of FDA audits?

Nothing in SQF (yet)?


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#4 abhagat

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 07:58 PM

We are on a 6 month audit cycle for FDA but we get it once a year.

 

For SQF they have never given us an option of having unannounced audits.

 

None of our customer/third party audits are unannounced and neither do they have such an option.
 


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#5 Setanta

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 08:06 PM

The USDA can also pop in and do a Thorough Review of your systems. I had one that went on for 2 weeks.

 

Yay!


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#6 cazyncymru

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

Well EHO can pop in at any time....

 

All my customers arrange to come on site ..... except the PIU

 

Cazx


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#7 tj7933

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

I find it interesting how operators find this wrong.  I think all audits should be unannounced.  I have personally be in plants that I have witnessed them clean, reorganize, retrain their staff, and implement procedures that are NOT implemented on a daily basis just so they can pass an audit. 

 

I do not find that industry 3rd party food safety audits provide any added assurances to the food safety of the final product on a day to day basis when they are scheduled ahead of time, because they do not provide a true snap shot of your company and how effectively its food safety system is managed.

 

If you don't have the confidence that you could successfully pass an unannounced audit then you have no confidence in your system at all.  And your company's "food safety culture" is just a mask you wear when told to.


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#8 esquef

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 05:16 PM

Oh yes, that's a biggie.  

What's the frequency of FDA audits?

Nothing in SQF (yet)?

 

Simon,

 

The frequency of FDA inspections (as I stated above I believe all are unannounced) are based on FDA risk analysis and currently the guidelines are very fuzzy because of FSMA (the Food Modernization Act). Here's an example of FSMA in action re. FDA risk analysis:

 

http://www.fda.gov/F...A/ucm295345.htm

 

Crazy stuff indeed.

 

As far as SQF is concerned I'm not aware of them performing unannounced audits, but wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't change soon.


Edited by esquef, 14 June 2013 - 05:17 PM.

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#9 Simon

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 05:38 PM

The USDA can also pop in and do a Thorough Review of your systems. I had one that went on for 2 weeks.

 

Yay!

 

Wow two week's that's ridiculous.  You either have a massive plant, a high risk/lot of problems or the auditor has a lot of time on his/her hands,

 

Well EHO can pop in at any time....

 

All my customers arrange to come on site ..... except the PIU

 

Cazx

 

Have you ever been audited by EHO in the past Caz?

 

I find it interesting how operators find this wrong.  I think all audits should be unannounced.  I have personally be in plants that I have witnessed them clean, reorganize, retrain their staff, and implement procedures that are NOT implemented on a daily basis just so they can pass an audit. 

 

I do not find that industry 3rd party food safety audits provide any added assurances to the food safety of the final product on a day to day basis when they are scheduled ahead of time, because they do not provide a true snap shot of your company and how effectively its food safety system is managed.

 

If you don't have the confidence that you could successfully pass an unannounced audit then you have no confidence in your system at all.  And your company's "food safety culture" is just a mask you wear when told to.

 

Agreed tj7933. :clap:

 

Simon,

 

The frequency of FDA inspections (as I stated above I believe all are unannounced) are based on FDA risk analysis and currently the guidelines are very fuzzy because of FSMA (the Food Modernization Act). Here's an example of FSMA in action re. FDA risk analysis:

 

http://www.fda.gov/F...A/ucm295345.htm

 

Crazy stuff indeed.

 

As far as SQF is concerned I'm not aware of them performing unannounced audits, but wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't change soon.

 

Thanks esquef, yes I think mandatory unannounced will be the future on all GFSI standards, we'll see voluntary option for a while I think.

 

Cheers,

Simon


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#10 Charles.C

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:23 AM

The USDA can also pop in and do a Thorough Review of your systems. I had one that went on for 2 weeks.

 

Yay!

 

Dear Setanta,

 

Wasn't a Hollywood look-alike  by any chance ? :gleam:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


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#11 cazyncymru

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:19 AM

Yes, She comes in to check my building fabrication, HACCP, Pest Control, Complaints, Cleaning Chemicals and that we're making what I say we make! amongst other things

 

She is very thorough and always leaves a report

 

Caz x


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#12 Marshenko

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:31 PM

Usually we get a little bit of a heads up when an EIAO is coming in to do an FSA though.  Or maybe that's just because I've got a good relationship with the circuit supervisor? :)

 

The USDA can also pop in and do a Thorough Review of your systems. I had one that went on for 2 weeks.

 

Yay!


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#13 Marshenko

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:34 PM

At my previous place of employment, they were two EIAOs in our smallest plant for nearly six weeks before another one stepped in and ended it.  I mean like ... 7000 square feet, 3 production rooms, a cooler, and one truck bay small.

 

Wow two week's that's ridiculous.  You either have a massive plant, a high risk/lot of problems or the auditor has a lot of time on his/her hands,

 


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#14 Setanta

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

Wow two week's that's ridiculous.  You either have a massive plant, a high risk/lot of problems or the auditor has a lot of time on his/her hands,

 

 

 

My vote is for the latter.  We are a small-ish family run business, one CCP (metal detector), assembly of frozen foods. 

 

Now, I did not need to be with them all day, every day, I just needed to be available for questions. It seemed to follow a form from the USDA and every piece of paper we generate was compared to their standards.


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#15 Setanta

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:24 PM

Dear Setanta,

 

Wasn't a Hollywood look-alike  by any chance ? :gleam:

 

Rgds / Charles.C

Ha, no such luck!  Yee-ow!


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#16 infoiqc

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:21 PM

I know that SA8000 requires an unannounced audit for the second surveillance audit of the 3 year cycle.

GlobalGAP and organic standards require the certification bodies to conduct a certain percentage of unannounced audits.

 

Gail

infoiqc


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#17 Charles.C

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:02 PM

Usually we get a little bit of a heads up when an EIAO is coming in to do an FSA though.  Or maybe that's just because I've got a good relationship with the circuit supervisor? :)

Dear All,

 

just in case the acronyms are getting tricky -

 

Attached File  EAIO, FSA - 5100.1Rev3.pdf   360.49KB   65 downloads

 

Rgds / Charles.C


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Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C






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