42 replies to this topic

[jyoung]

Does anyone have experience with non-production personnel (administrative) who are either walking through production areas to go from office to office, or are conducting audits (not directly involved with food handling) who believe that it is acceptable to wear capri pants (tops of feet and legs exposed) and jewelry during these times? The long-standing belief is that this is acceptable; as the new QA Manager, I am trying to change this thinking and would like some input from others who have gone through this process.

[afend]

I think it would be best to view it as case by case scenario. If an employee knows they will spend a decent amount of time (like conducting an audit) then I would see no issue with fully banning open toe shoes, capri pants, jewelry, etc. Are there no other routes to take? If not, I could understand being lenient towards those passing thru but I would fully ban open toe shoes or capri pants. It is not only a risk for food contamination but the personnel's safety too.

[Mr. Incognito]

I'm more of a fire and brimstone type of quality person.     (Note to Simon we don't have any Devil emoticons... This would have been the perfect time to have one lol).  I've actually been told by a "plant manager" (I put that in quotes because he shouldn't have ever been hired as one.  Yeah for cost cutting and hiring cheep) that I was a "Fire Brand" of a quality person... and he said it like it was a bad thing. 

 

 

If you are in my production area you will follow the GMPs.  Period.  If that means you can't wear capri pants.. I personally don't give a rats... you can finish that.  Also no open toed shoes etc.

 

Certainly no jewelry.  You never know what might happen and wearing jewelry is not only a food safety issue but a personnel safety issue.

 

If they have an issue with that there is always another place of employment they could find IMO.  I've never run into this but then again every place I've worked didn't allow people to wear capri pants and while some of the office ladies may have worn open toed shoes in the office they were required to wear steel toed boots if they entered production and there was routes of travel between all points that didn't enter production.

 

Really the biggest offenders I have had to deal with, in relation to GMPs, was maintenance typically.

[classic]

All personnel should be abiding by your Hygiene & GMP rules for the area/factory no matter how long they intend to be in there, who they are and the whether there is activity taking place or not. The excuse of production has finished or I only need to go into to get... is not accepted as there is always a contamination risk.

[Dharmadi Sadeli Putra]

Dear Jyoung,

I'm suggesting you to conduct GMPs training for non production personnel especially who get involved in internal audit

Avila

[Prudence]

Wearing the correct clothing needs to be about where people are, not who they are.

 

You need to establish that no one can can pass through the door to production unless they are suitably dressed - no matter who they are.

 

You need a change of attitude in all your staff; unsuitably dressed people in the production area should be challenged by anyone and everyone - not only by the QA manager.

 

Does the plant manager (owner) abide by the rules? If yes, your task is a lot easier; post the entry rules, brief everyone on them and recruit all the staff in policing them.

 

If your staff have pride in their work and in doing it properly, they will all help you maintain good standards.

[cazyncymru]

Remind your plant manager how much a product recall would cost if a customer found some gems/ toenail (painted of course) or leg hair (not all of us ladies have time to pontificate!)  in their product

 

Or how much a HSE fine would be if someone lost a toe

 

Sobering facts. Sometimes they only understand money!

 

Caz x

[cazyncymru]

I'm more of a fire and brimstone type of quality person.     (Note to Simon we don't have any Devil emoticons... This would have been the perfect time to have one lol). 

 

 

If you are in my production area you will follow the GMPs.  Period.  If that means you can't wear capri pants.. I personally don't give a rats... you can finish that.  Also no open toed shoes etc.

 

Certainly no jewelry.  You never know what might happen and wearing jewelry is not only a food safety issue but a personnel safety issue.

 

Oh nothing wrong with being a Fire Brand!!

 

I once had a customer technologist turn up with false nails, painted beautifully and adorned. Told her she wasn't coming into our factory, and she told me that as long as they wore gloves at their factory, that would be acceptable.

 

Gave her directions to the nearest chemist! Don't care what she did at her factory, but she certainly wasn't doing it at mine!

 

And since then, I've never bought anything manufactured by them! (unless we made it!)

 

Caz x

[Mr. Incognito]

Oh nothing wrong with being a Fire Brand!!

 

I once had a customer technologist turn up with false nails, painted beautifully and adorned. Told her she wasn't coming into our factory, and she told me that as long as they wore gloves at their factory, that would be acceptable.

 

Gave her directions to the nearest chemist! Don't care what she did at her factory, but she certainly wasn't doing it at mine!

 

And since then, I've never bought anything manufactured by them! (unless we made it!)

 

Caz x

 

Nice! I love it when people who work in food safety think they are above the rules because they work in food safety. 

 

"Um.. no you can leave thanks."

[cazyncymru]

Nice! I love it when people who work in food safety think they are above the rules because they work in food safety. 

 

"Um.. no you can leave thanks."

 

It's having the conviction in telling them to leave!!

[Mr. Incognito]

I've heard a bunch of messed up stories about auditors and customers.  I just don't get how they think they can try to pull something off like that... that's all I meant.

[ShannonH]

Just a thought on this because our facility has the same issue.  We were told that we need to have the office staff be treated as if they were guests on the production floor.  Them must follow the same rules.  So, if your policy is that someone, in particular maybe a potential client getting a faclity tour must have long pants, closed shoes, and no jewelry then the office staff need to follow those rules as well.  We have a pretty poor communication system when it comes to phone calls for maintenance or the plant manager here and ofter that is why our office staff will go out there.  Hopefully this helps at least a little.

[Jus'me]

It should be written in your GMP policies that in the  Production areas people must not wear jewelry, or open shoes and wear the hair net, etc.  All dress code items and procedures that your Production staff are held to are also applicable to any person that enters the area, no exceptions!!!  Remember, the policy is area specific not personnel specific.  They may argue that they are not directly involved in handling the products, but they are still in the area and must follow proper food safety programs.  If not, then what prevents them from bringing food, glass or hazardous chemicals into the area just because they are "passing through".  Stick to your guns. I don't know how your upper management feels about it, but if you could get them to "buy-in" to the strict program then it will make it easier to enforce.  If they don't, you may educate them as to why it is important to have the policy in place and have it all-encompassing.  You could also maybe have available shoe covers, disposable lab coats, and all the PPE required for the area available at the entrances for when people are passing through they can suit up. Also have signage reminding them to remove jewelry and if they have false fingernails or nail polish they must wear gloves, etc.  Then train-train-train.  

[Setanta]

You will notice that not one of these comments had any support for the "just passing through" office people. They have no GOOD reason to not obey the rules. I have asked a USDA inspector to leave or not be on my floor when she showed up in Capri pants. She was a replacement inspector and acted clueless. Regardless, she did not inspect my facility that day.

You need to meet with your senior management staff to get them up to speed on the issue and find out where they stand. (HOPEFULLY behind you) Then make it clear to the office people that they must obey the same rules.

Setanta

[cazyncymru]

 Also have signage reminding them to remove jewelry and if they have false fingernails or nail polish they must wear gloves, etc.  Then train-train-train.  

 

I disagree, If your policy says no nail varnish / false nails, and you allow "occasional visitors passing through " to wear gloves, then you could argue that  people of shop floor can wear gloves. Enforce your policy. Zero tolerance!

 

Caz x

[Tony-C]

Does anyone have experience with non-production personnel (administrative) who are either walking through production areas to go from office to office, or are conducting audits (not directly involved with food handling) who believe that it is acceptable to wear capri pants (tops of feet and legs exposed) and jewelry during these times? The long-standing belief is that this is acceptable; as the new QA Manager, I am trying to change this thinking and would like some input from others who have gone through this process.

 

Hi J Young,

 

 

As well as applying the same hygiene standards to all personnel in production areas as indicated by previous posters, you should look at access through production areas to offices as this should be discouraged.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Jus'me]

I understand your point Caz, but sometimes it is extremely difficult if not impossible to enforce a zero tolerance.  have to keep in mind the whole idea behind the policy is the safety of the food and making sure no foreign contaminants get into it. It is greatly different if a person is "just passing through" as opposed to actually handling items in the area. Zero tolerance sounds good and is convenient on paper, but often is not practical or totally enforceable in practice.  For example, say you have a zero tolerance for the subject at hand, what is the repercussions for those who do not follow the policy?  Are they reprimanded and ultimately terminated? If so, what if a member of upper management continues to disregard the policy? Are you going to fire them?  good luck w/ that!!!  Policies have to be workable, the best policies can be drafted on paper, but if it is not feasible to put into practice or not realistically enforceable, then it is useless.  That is why I am opposed to 'zero tolerance" policies in most cases, that and some times they go a bit too far, have to use some common sense and keep in mind how the policy will be enforced before you set it up and try to utilize it otherwise you are shooting your self in the foot and setting your self up for a lot of unnecessary headaches and ultimate failure.   

[Tony-C]

An interesting view Jus'me

 

For me the fundamentals of management are based on fairness and consistency. If not 'Anarchy' reigns?

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Snookie]

Following the rules is not only important sometimes its a test.  Have had vendor test to see if you we will follow the rules though he the customer is trying to break them.  Standing our ground in the end gained us a ton of credibility and new business. 

[Dharmadi Sadeli Putra]

I have a dream...

someday i will get rich and build my own chocolate factory,

there's a hallway on the 2nd floor with a view to the processing line,

So you guys, can take a look to the production floor without remove your watch, jewelry, false fingernail, etc

I wish...

[Mazie]

What is the issue with Capri pants?  If you ankles are cool - then you are cool?  I too am currently having this issue with my new plant.

Where in the regulation can you fight this issue?  I get challenged all the time to site the regulation and have yet to find the FDA/SQF/BRC regulation to quote.

[Mr. Incognito]

Well TBH I don't think there is a "rule" saying you can't wear capri pants...

 

That being said typically exposed legs is more of a personnel safety issue. 

 

Unless they have lots of leg hair... then maybe they need leg nets

[Setanta]

 

What is the issue with Capri pants?  If you ankles are cool - then you are cool?  I too am currently having this issue with my new plant.
Where in the regulation can you fight this issue?  I get challenged all the time to site the regulation and have yet to find the FDA/SQF/BRC regulation to quote.

It is where you draw the line. If Capris are OK, why not shorts? Bermuda shorts? Below the knees? Are Daisy Dukes (very short shorts?)OK?

What if the person is not petite, then how short is OK? And what about hair vs no hair. That IS part of the reason shirts have to have sleeves, you know. :)

Bottom line, it is a business not a beach. YMMV <feeling eeeevil today>

Edited by Setanta, 09 July 2014 - 05:59 PM.

[Mr. Incognito]

 

It is where you draw the line. If Capris are OK, why not shorts? Bermuda shorts? Below the knees? Are Daisy Dukes (very short shorts?)OK?

What if the person is not petite, then how short is OK? And what about hair vs no hair. That IS part of the reason shirts have to have sleeves, you know. :)

Bottom line, it is a business not a beach. YMMV <feeling eeeevil today>

 

Wooooooo Setanta reel in the evil just a little bit... we've got you at an 8... we need you at a 7

 

No really I do agree with her though.  Typically in food manufacturing I've seen pants, pants, and pants. No capris, no dresses, no shorts...

[Snookie]

I have a dream...

someday i will get rich and build my own chocolate factory,

there's a hallway on the 2nd floor with a view to the processing line,

So you guys, can take a look to the production floor without remove your watch, jewelry, false fingernail, etc

I wish...

 

My dream.....

Lots of chocolate to eat...

Lots of good food, wine and beer

Lots of good books,

A lovely mountain view

Peace and quiet

Did I say chocolate.......Ahhhh

Edited by Snookie, 09 July 2014 - 06:04 PM.