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#1 fgjuadi

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 02:58 PM

Hi,

 

I've been on a ...quest... to perfect my HACCP program and I'm trying to make the process flow chart easier to read / more accessible.  This is very difficult to describe without showing you the HACCP flow, but it's proprietary and I don't know you, you possible Arthur Slugworths. 

 

Right now I have it organized vertically, with inputs on the right, process in the center, and outputs on the left.  Materials, logistic, process, and rework steps have their own colors to designate.  Each step is labeled with a number, etc. It's pretty clear until I get to packaging / wrapping ...

 

At that point, there are 5 or 6 steps that generate  WIP, REWORK,  and WASTE.  Rework and WIP generally can become inputs for several steps in the system -

for ex WIP at step 13 could be used at step 14 or 5 or 6.  Basically, I have arrows going *everywhere* once I get there.  They're criss-crossing and making it difficult to read.   I have a few "Go to step 7, 8, or 10"

 

Do any of you have a creative way to add inputs in if they are outputs from a variety of other steps?  It's a hot mess.

 

 

 


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#2 Setanta

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

Ha, Ha Arther Slugworth! I just had to get that in. Let me fire up the brain and see if I can up with anything helpful.

Signed,
Veruca I mean...


Edited by Setanta, 30 July 2014 - 03:03 PM.

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#3 Charles.C

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 05:21 PM

Dear magenta_m,

 

Clearly it would be beneficial if you posted the overall flowchart. otherwise context is essentially  "unknown"

 

And perhaps explain WIP = ?? waste in place ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C


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Charles.C


#4 SQF1188

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 05:51 PM

I've seen examples where WIP (I'm assuming work in progress?) or Rework as a step is added back in to an earlier step and in the hazard analysis and flow chart they'll just make a reference or asterisk that states "no new steps are being conducted, rework or WIP is a repeat of all previous steps". Some plans will have a separate flow chart for rework/WIP and label it as a different module and work it back into the original flow chart as "see module 2" (module 1 being the original flow chart)


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#5 fgjuadi

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

Dear magenta_m,

 

Clearly it would be beneficial if you posted the overall flowchart. otherwise context is essentially  "unknown"

 

And perhaps explain WIP = ?? waste in place ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

You're right.  It's impossible to explain without seeing.  Your slick talk made me give. I fold.   I removed company specific information.  We all work at Company X, so it shouldn't be an issue....

 

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...y-x-haccp-flow/

 

WIP = Work In Progress (occasionally instead of going through the entire process, we get to a step and store product until we need it - mold the chocolate but do not wrap yet, etc.

 

I guess  the first question I have would be can someone read and understand the process flow easily.

 

The parts that look confusing / busy to me, but are not technically incorrect,  are

 

-Input 1F - The conveyor has compressed air regardless of if the product is WIP or not, just...looks ...funny...

 

- Everything past step 12.

 

Do I need to clarify where the waste is going after it is removed from the product stream?

 

Can I just have one big "output" that is WIP, or should I separate for each step?  Dfferent steps have different WIP (WIP from step 13 is different than WIP from step 16, etc, might be added at 13 or 16)

 

Should I connect the temporary warehouse storage to the WIP box at step 13, or is that WIP something I would put in as an input?

 

 

I've seen examples where WIP (I'm assuming work in progress?) or Rework as a step is added back in to an earlier step and in the hazard analysis and flow chart they'll just make a reference or asterisk that states "no new steps are being conducted, rework or WIP is a repeat of all previous steps". Some plans will have a separate flow chart for rework/WIP and label it as a different module and work it back into the original flow chart as "see module 2" (module 1 being the original flow chart)

 

 

I like the idea of a separate module / flow chart for WIP, but I feel like I would have to recreate the entire chart regardless.  Asterisk is probably OK, but doesn't show where different WIP goes/is generated. 

 

How do you normally represent steps that are optional ?  For Ex step 17 is optional, some customers have their product shrink wrapped and some do not.  I put in a lighter blue to designate, but maybe a dotted line?


Edited by magenta_majors, 30 July 2014 - 07:17 PM.

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#6 Snookie

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:17 PM

Arthur Slugworth.....really after all we been through together..... :o  :crybaby:

 

 

Charles is right without seeing the "mess" it can be rather hard to help you sort it out.  


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#7 Snookie

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:20 PM

I did try to take a look at your link but it won't let me since I am not a paid member.  :helpplease:


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#8 fgjuadi

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:55 PM

Arthur Slugworth.....really after all we been through together..... :o  :crybaby:

 

 

Charles is right without seeing the "mess" it can be rather hard to help you sort it out.

Ha, our lunch breaks must be in sync

 

I did try to take a look at your link but it won't let me since I am not a paid member.  :helpplease:

Strange...The link isn't working any more.  I think a moderator has to approve it before we can look at it and I've never had the patience to read through a "How to link files directly to a post " thing....Okay, I'm gonna try one more time using this "Full Editor" button ...


Edited by magenta_majors, 30 July 2014 - 07:58 PM.

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#9 Snookie

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:27 PM

Ha, our lunch breaks must be in sync

 

Lunch.....you get lunch :w00t:  :rofl2:

 

Although it is laid out well I do see what you mean.  Let me look at it a bit and will get back to you. 


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#10 Snookie

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:31 PM

I like the idea of breaking it at step 12 and 12 and on are a whole new module.  It will give you a lot more room to break it out and make it cleaner looking.  It will also allow it be clearer what are possibilities.  When I look at this I think that all steps are followed. 


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#11 Charles.C

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:57 PM

Dear magenta_m,

 

Thks for attachment.

 

My first thought on cautious peering was "Heath Robinson Strikes Again". :smile:

 

As per Snookie, a little thought will be required. i suspect you have "over-engineered" (eg all the WIPs) and thereby lost clarity, as you already mentioned. TBH I have never seen WIP used on a flow chart in this way. Maybe it's inevitable due to the chocolate thing.

 

There is actually another chocolate enrobing flow chart system posted on this forum (somewhere) which from memory used sectional diagrams to substitute for WIP rather than one composite.

 

Another bakery haccp flow i attached here used a similar trick then re-assembled the segments on one master composite via mini-insets. Maybe worth thinking about.

 

I get the objective but maybe there is "just too much". Or perhaps a spreadsheet type layout, eg Excel.

 

The Visio - type things can handle branched stuff like this also from memory. (Or is that what the current layout derives from ?)

 

Rgds / Charles.C


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#12 fgjuadi

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 11:29 AM

I've seen examples where WIP (I'm assuming work in progress?) or Rework as a step is added back in to an earlier step and in the hazard analysis and flow chart they'll just make a reference or asterisk that states "no new steps are being conducted, rework or WIP is a repeat of all previous steps". Some plans will have a separate flow chart for rework/WIP and label it as a different module and work it back into the original flow chart as "see module 2" (module 1 being the original flow chart)

 

 

 

As per Snookie, a little thought will be required. i suspect you have "over-engineered" (eg all the WIPs) and thereby lost clarity, as you already mentioned. TBH I have never seen WIP used on a flow chart in this way. Maybe it's inevitable due to the chocolate thing.

 

 

Ah, maybe I'm using WIP in a wrong way.  We have a lot of products that are the same thing but have different wraps (holiday specific wraps, etc), we batch them, and keep them until we get an order (within a reasonable time frame).  They don't have to be reworked (remelted), but they leave the product stream and we have a separate programs for it.  I didn't realize that WIP is synonymous with Rework.  For us "Rework" is something that was molded or wrapped incorrectly.

 

I like the idea of a cut-out or mini-chart, but I guess I'm having trouble with how that looks other than making a section bigger.  Part of the reason I'm trying to clarify is that this is the flow for plain, solid bars, and when I start adding things to the plan for other flows (fills & inclusions have cooking, temperature controlled storage, more equipment etc) I need a clear "template".

 

 

  When I look at this I think that all steps are followed. 

 

 

This! The "ORs".  How do I designate a step is an "OR" elegantly?  I don't recall seeing "OR' on HACCP flow charts like I see with decision trees...def gonna spend time today looking around at other haccp flows to see how its done.

 

 

I was thinking about taking out "conveyor" but it's pretty long physically and there are a lot of hazards associated with it.

 

 

Also - yes- Visio - does this awesome thing where you can connect shapes to Excel spreadsheets. Once it's connected to the file, you can add stuff like bars to display % or turn a color at limits, and update at will.  So I like to connect my shapes to my trending spreadsheets to get a visual (when I worked in bottled water, I connected "hard to open" complaints with the torquing step, etc).  It gives you a  cool map of the process and shows your weak points.    This was valuable with EMP results - I was able to make a map of the factory with swabbing results & have the positives glow red.  I've also made a Visio map of a warehouse before for the logistics manager- he kept inventory in a spread sheet, so I connected the shapes to bays, and he had a little map of how full every space was.  Of course, for it to be of any use you have to be able to read it, and I don't want to add any trending features until I have a good layout ready.  But...maybe... someday. 

 

What am I gonna owe you guys, consultant fee wise? XD I really appreciate the help, it's hard to find good thoughts on stuff like this when you are a lone QA wolf. 


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#13 Charles.C

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:47 PM

Dear magenta_m,

 

The bakery modular style flowchart is in the attachment here -

http://www.ifsqn.com...indpost&p=60942

 

I now recall modular methods are also popular in Foodservice Flowcharts, for obvious reasons. Some schematic examples are also posted on the forum.

 

Will probably take a bit longer to find the enrobing example I mentioned. Watch this thread. :smile:

(added later - did some searching but failed to locate - sorry)

 

One thing for sure is that you have a quite complex layout. :smile:

 

I'm not too sure that WIP is synonymous with Rework. I guess the critical part as far as the overall flowchart is concerned is the correct incorporation of any loops into the Hazard Analysis vis-a-vis the endpoint Risk Assessment.

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Edited by Charles.C, 09 August 2014 - 01:13 AM.
added bold text

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#14 fgjuadi

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:59 PM

Update -

I've created a horizontal monstrosity as well!  I haven't added the colors yet, but it looks kind of dignified without them.  Not modern enough though.

 

Also the warehouse storage is in a weird spot, and I threw in a "catch all" step, but I dunno if it's "kosher"


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#15 Snookie

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:23 PM

Cool looking chart.....just a couple of questions.

 

At beginning you have chocolate and packaging.  Would think you need another box for other raw ingredients.

 

At the determine quality step, the good quality product is either returned to storage or to WIP, if the quality is good, can it return to the line without any further steps?  Or is that what you are considering WIP?

 

All products are weight checked, wrapped, then get pop packaging and coded.  Only the shrink wrap is optional?

 

Finally, are all of your chocolates solid?  If they have inclusions such as nuts, etc, and they were poorly molded, would they still go to the re-melting tank?  Is it possible they could become waste?

 

I am not sure you need the colors other than what you already have.  It looks good without them and with them might be too busy. 


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#16 fgjuadi

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:28 PM

Cool looking chart.....just a couple of questions.

 

At beginning you have chocolate and packaging.  Would think you need another box for other raw ingredients.

 

At the determine quality step, the good quality product is either returned to storage or to WIP, if the quality is good, can it return to the line without any further steps?  Or is that what you are considering WIP?

 

All products are weight checked, wrapped, then get pop packaging and coded.  Only the shrink wrap is optional?

 

Finally, are all of your chocolates solid?  If they have inclusions such as nuts, etc, and they were poorly molded, would they still go to the re-melting tank?  Is it possible they could become waste?

 

I am not sure you need the colors other than what you already have.  It looks good without them and with them might be too busy. 

Ah, This is the HACCP plan for solid / plain chocolate only - the nuts flavor etc will be another plan.  I don't wanna add them until I get something workable, because then it will extra crazy / busy..  I will need to add cold storage for temperature sensitive ingredients, mixing tanks, cooking kettles, manual labor steps, different machinery...Inclusions are a whole other ball game :)

 

Only shrink wrap is optional, everything else gets cased/dated.

 

WIP is a little different - If a customer orders, say, 2000 bars, we often make 3000 or 4000.  This is because the longer the run, the more cost efficient it is.  So if we make 4000 of plain milk bars, we wrap/date etc enough for the order (2000), store 1000 because many small customer order plain milk bars with different foil, and wrap another 1000 in a standard color foil, but not with an outer sleeve, because several large customers order it this way.   So anything produced above the order number becomes WIP.  Theoretically, it could return to the line, and will, once we're ready for it (Don't call us, we'll call you).  If it is scratched or poorly tempered, we remelt / rework it, but it can not go directly back to the line because it takes time to melt.  If it's not a quality issue, but a food safety issue, it's waste - and a lot of time wrap etc is generated as waste. 


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#17 Snookie

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:02 PM

So you got it covered.  :gleam:


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#18 Charles.C

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:21 AM

Dear magenta_m,

 

Well, speaking as a frequently challenged user of flowcharts,  this revision looks a vast improvement to me. :thumbup:

 

From a HACCP POV, it is very helpful IMO to also add numbers to the "boxes" but I am guessing you haven't got there yet. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


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#19 fgjuadi

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:58 PM

Update: 

 

Modern & Tacky versions attached

 

 


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#20 Charles.C

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:56 AM

Update: 

 

Modern & Tacky versions attached

 

Dear magenta_m,

 

Thks for the comparative charts. The "after" looks nice although the 1st CCP will be (highly) debatable for some. :smile:

 

And no chart step numbers, that's auditorial confidence  IMO.

 

I look forward to seeing the Hazard Analysis et seq.

 

Rgds / Charles.C


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#21 fgjuadi

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:08 AM

Dear magenta_m,

 

Thks for the comparative charts. The "after" looks nice although the 1st CCP will be (highly) debatable for some. :smile:

 

And no chart step numbers, that's auditorial confidence  IMO.

 

I look forward to seeing the Hazard Analysis et seq.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

Numbers are surprisingly hard to arrange!  But I put them on my "real" HACCP, along with actual machinery names (Buhler 1 instead of :machine)   . 

I decided to number the "call outs"  as the number just before the step (like City Water as 4A, Water Heater was 4b, then the step they connected to was 5, but it looks funny when you read it - 3 to 5.  I found a couple useful websites on graphic design of flow charts - no crossing lines!  arrows connect on the bottom!   Mostly they are ads for software, but for the graphic design challenged, they help a bit -

 

http://www.smartdraw...wchart-tips.htm

https://www.lucidcha...sign-flowchart/

 

Screen / Magnet was added on the suggestion of the FDA - but it's a CP, not a CCP.  Maybe I should take out the other color and make the CCP red and the CP pink to differentiate?

 

I'm holding back on the first world problems meme.  Time to go watch the meteor shower!


Edited by magenta_majors, 13 August 2014 - 10:39 AM.

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#22 Charles.C

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:37 PM


Screen / Magnet was added on the suggestion of the FDA - but it's a CP, not a CCP.  Maybe I should take out the other color and make the CCP red and the CP pink to differentiate?

Dear magenta_m,

 

I'm not familiar with the exact haccp difference in significance as bestowed by FDA regarding CP vs CCP. For myself it would be sort of black/white scenario, ie i have never indicated "CPs" on a traditional hazard analysis. i think this must be an American thing. i would suggest green for CP, a suitably low impact shade. :smile:

 

Or perhaps just one CCP looked a bit underwhelming to FDA (job security issues?), ie needed a friend.

 

Rgds / Charles.C


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#23 fgjuadi

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:01 PM

Update - Filled Bars!  More for posterity / other people looking for Chocolate HACCP s  than anything else, though feed back is always welcome  :biggrin:  - also - Visio has an auto number function!  It looks ugly with the numbers though. 

 

The thumbnail procrastination chart isn't my own, but provided a LOT of inspiration


Edited by magenta_majors, 19 August 2014 - 08:02 PM.

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#24 Snookie

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:07 PM

Am thinking we need some chocolate to sample while we are working our way through it..... :giggle:


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#25 MCIAN

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:05 AM

Hi Magenta!

 

I get the notion that your chocolate blocks don't go through the weighing (scale) process. Is that so?

Otherwise, the last revision is a lot more comprehensive and neater than the first one.

 

Congratulations!

 

 

:wtg:


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