6 replies to this topic

[ivana78]

Hello, I have a dilemma. If during the meat preparation we use a part of meat and mince it for further grilling, should this be an oprp or a CCP?

 

Thank you,

Ivana

[MQA]

I say a little bit more information may be required to what your product actually is.  

 

When you say "during the meat preparation" does this mean there are other meats? 

 

For mincing:

• Is the equipment easy to clean and sanitise?  
• How long does the process last?  ​Is the process within a temperature-controlled room?  If not, is it possible to convert into a temperature-controlled room?  If not, consider a CCP for time factor due to pathogen growth
• How much of the mince meat do you use from your bulk order? Is it all used in the one batch?  If yes, then traceability is easy.  If broken up over batches during the day or over the week, then traceability could be difficult therefore you may consider it a CCP

When grilling, do you grill the meat until it is completely cooked?  

 

I'm assuming you are also referring to raw meat since you are mincing and grilling it.  Therefore your suppliers would be part of your approved supplier program.  As part of that approval, your meat suppliers would be registered with the meat association/regulation of your country with added HACCP certification as part of their assurance.  You would also have a CCP at receival to ensure meats received are temperature checked and within critical limits.  

 

Would be interested to hear what other peeps here have to say...

[ivana78]

Ok, here's the flow. We have certified producers of meat. We buy pork and beef and we check meat temperature at reception. When processing raw meat (for cutlets), sometimes we mince between 50-100 kg for burgers or loafs. It is always used latest within 12 hrs of mincing. The meat is always from one bulk.  And we produce food in 3 shifts for a mill with roughly 1500 cooked meals a day.  Since it is a ready-to-eat produce it is completely cooked or grilled.

 

Meat processing takes place in a butchery where the room temperature is between 18 and 19 degrees.

The equipment is easy to clean and sanitize.

 

Hope this clears the picture a bit.

 

Thanks in advance.

Ivana

•  

[Snookie]

What is risk of metal inclusion? 

 

Sounds to me that from bacteria and chemical risk are controllable which would mean OPRP, not CCP.  If metal is low risk, then mincing would not be CCP. 

[RG3]

oprp for your mincing and CCP for your grilling.

 

Need to edit to put in a disclaimer that I have not seen your HACCP Plan nor have I seen your process to give  you an exact answer but based off your sentence "Since it is a ready-to-eat produce it is completely cooked or grilled" You should use a Significance Chart to determine whether it's a CCP or not. A Critical Control Point is a step which control can be applied and is essential to prevent or eliminate a food safety hazard or reduce it to an acceptable level. It is the last step of the process to address the hazard.

Edited by RG3, 22 December 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[Charles.C]

Dear Ivana,

 

I deduce this is iso/ffsc22000 despite the forum. or perhaps you have expanded oprp in which case who knows ?

You omitted to indicate what you believed the hazard to be. Or the proposed control measure of interest.

 

As i understand, the step you mention is a separate process in itself, consisting of mincing raw meat, and grilling, etc, etc for (frozen?) RTE beefburgers, whatever.

 

I deduce you are asking if the mincing step is/contains an oprp or ccp.

 

and one (short) answer could be -

 

(a) If the preceived hazard is significant (eg based on a RA matrix), it is either a CCP or OPRP. (seems unlikely to be a prp)

 

(b) If so, the decision as to oprp/ccp is then ideally based on 7.4.4.

 

I presume the most likely hazard of interest  is micro.growth of E.coli O157 and/or Salmonella. If the history/mincing step does not include any unacceptable time/temperature activities (???), IMO the answer to (a) is NO. So (b) is then irrelevant.

 

But if you like to generate lot's of ccps/oprps, I daresay the auditor will be equally happy to see you design your matrix so as to justify a significant hazard and embark on the (b) iso haccp story.

 

IMO the simplistic logic of deciding the hazard is/is not a "Codex CCP" and, if not, then the control measure must be an oprp is fallacious. But yr auditor may well disagree.

 

It's also possible that the recent revised issue of iso22004 may change the situation.

 

PS - of course if the perceived hazard was also/solely(?)  metal from mincing, it rather depends on whether there is a MD lurking anywhere.

 

PPS - it is also possible Serbia may have some regulatory CCP steps that you are (so far) unaware of?

 

Happy Xmas / NY

[Madam A. D-tor]

 

Meat processing takes place in a butchery where the room temperature is between 18 and 19 degrees.

 

Ivana

 

Dear Ivana,

 

18 -19 degree Celsius for temperature in a Butchery room seems very high to me.

 

EU directive 853/2004 requires meat to be processed at room temperature of maximum 12 degrees Celsius.

Also this directive is requiring a temperature of minced meat of maximum 2 degrees Celsius. It will be hard to obtain this in a working temperature of 18-19 C.