5 replies to this topic

[jorge999]

I am currently looking for certification of around 6 sites globally to ISO22000 and I am told that some certification bodies carry out the Stage 1 audit remotely. This is a new concept to me - anyone had experience of this?

[Rehman R.]

That is true. I have experienced such an audit for ISO 9001 where certification body asked to email them all the documentation, objectives, internal audit report and management review record.

[Ken]

No experience of this but your guidance for stage 1 audits is in ISO 22003: 2013 FSMS - Requirements for bodies providing audit and certificate of food safety management systems (Clause 9.2.3.1.3) which states that 'the stage 1 audit shall be carried out at the clients premises in order to achieve the objects.... In exceptional circumstances, part of the stage 1 audit can take place off site and shall be fully justified. The evidence stating that stage 1 objectives are fully achieved shall be provided. Exceptional circumstances can include very remote location, short seasonal production'. This is different to ISO 9001 where the stage 1 audit can be off site. Hope that helps

[food safety and haccp]

If audits can be done remotely then one must be joking i would like to see an certification body and auditor who could do audits remotely.dear Jorge if you are interested in applying for iso22k fsms certification then i would request you to please get in touch with me so that i could discuss this further.

 

Fahim

Food safety and certification consultant

[jorge999]

Thanks for the replies on this. I'm pretty sure, after some consultation with some professional auditors, that UKAS certified bodies would not perform a Stage 1 audit remotely. The site in question which claims that Stage 1 will be performed remotely is in northern Europe where it would appear that the rules are relaxed somewhat. They also state that Stage 2 will be performed the week after the remote Stage 1, a fact with which I am also unfamiliar and uncomfortable.

 

Would you say this devalues the ISO certification somewhat, if there are different rules in different parts of the world?

[Ken]

A Stage 2 for ISO 22000 has to be completed within 6 months. In practice they must leave sufficient time for the client to close out any non conformity identified in the stage 1 audit - without  prejudging the audit, one week is not enough time.

 

If the certification body is accredited by UKAS or their national equivalent, then the same rules specified in ISO 22003 apply. (i.e the stage 1 audit must be on site unless their are exceptional circumstances). If exceptional circumstances do not apply,  either the certification company is not accredited or they appear to be ignoring the rules under which they should be operating.