11 replies to this topic

[Dimitis]

Hi all,

 

We are going to relocate and at the new building we have to prepare packing rooms (packing  powders etc). I am a little bit confused about how many sinks we should have, if we can have any inside the clean room, because we don't need it for our production, only for hygiene reasons. Also about drains, I read a lot of different opinions, and no one gave me a definite answer, can a clean room have drains or not? Where can I find EU regulations about it? Thank you in advance!! 

[Charles.C]

Hi all,

 

We are going to relocate and at the new building we have to prepare packing rooms (packing  powders etc). I am a little bit confused about how many sinks we should have, if we can have any inside the clean room, because we don't need it for our production, only for hygiene reasons. Also about drains, I read a lot of different opinions, and no one gave me a definite answer, can a clean room have drains or not? Where can I find EU regulations about it? Thank you in advance!! 

 

Hi Dimitis,

 

Pharmaceuticals ??

 

PGALMI

[Dimitis]

Hi Charles,

 

No, its food, cacao powder etc

[Charles.C]

Hi Charles,

 

No, its food, cacao powder etc

 

RTE ? aseptic environment ?

 

I wondered why the cleanroom

[Dimitis]

oh, that it might be my mistake, in general i call a packing room clean room, because its should be hygienic for HACCP reasons, (sorry for my English)  

[Charles.C]

oh, that it might be my mistake, in general i call a packing room clean room, because its should be hygienic for HACCP reasons, (sorry for my English)  

 

No problem.

 

But is it classified as RTE (=ready-to-eat) ?

[Dimitis]

No, we packing it and send it out for retailers. We don't process it in any way, we just re-pack it in different quantities from bulk, and we don't actually need water in the packing rooms, except for cleaning hands and general cleaning. That's why I am a little bit confused if we should or shouldn't have any sinks inside. 

[OrganicCandyAng]

We do something similar - but with candy. Basically a packing room with no further processing and nothing messy like powders.

 

We have a hand washing sink (which I think was required yet before my time) and a 3-basin sink for clean-out-of-place items like tools, scale pans, and blades.  This could be due to our limited space but regardless we don't use (and maybe don't even have) floor drains because we don't do wash down or spray down. Most things are cleaned in place with colored rags and water. 

[Charles.C]

Hi Dimitis.

 

Offhand, I would imagine that the initial hygiene requirements (or not) will depend on the appropriate regulations regarding how you are clasified/licensed/authorised to operate within the UK regulations ?

 

I presume you have been obliged to discuss this with EHO's etc already ?

 

I am a little surprised that you are not required to know as to the future purpose of yr product from an RTE-type POV since this is often significant with respect to any regulatory hygiene controls.

[Dimitis]

Hi Charles,

 

To tell the truth I am straggling with regulations for days! From my POV it is not worth it having sinks inside a packing room because powders don't really cooperate good with water and extra humidity. I would prefer to have sinks for the personnel to wash their hands directly outside of the packing rooms. And no drains. That's an other question. Is it mandatory to have washing stations outside of every packing room, or is it OK if we just have one strategically placed?   

[Charles.C]

Hi Dimitis,

 

I deduce the "regulations" which have been quoted to you require you to exhibit internal drains and sinks ?

 

IMEX that is usually the end of the story.

 

Or are there any other options offered, eg for you to demonstrate that alternative formats give a satisfactory hygienic result ?

 

From a purely theoretical POV, the answer would be based on risk assessment, eg the practical requirements so as to maintain appropriate hygiene for the existing Production.

I appreciate that some dry systems wish to totally avoid proximate water but one still has to prove that adequate hygiene is achieved. There are a few threads on this forum with analogous difficulties and which use vacuum cleaning systems, etc. Personnel hygiene is a different issue.

[Dimitis]

I suppose that the best is to have drains in every packing room and sink also, so to be easy for cleaning and if necessary, we can always close them.