14 replies to this topic

[RALH]

Hi all,

 

I'd like to ask you guys if you have time...I'm sure you do. is serving (by the food servers) of food is a CCP? since after serving there's no other process in line to be able to eliminate hazards,

if any.

 

We are not a fast resto or any profitable establishment but a corporate funded facility. we do fine dining style of service to corporate guestS. The only control we can do is by following the Good Personal Hygiene by our food servers, using PPE's at all time and using clean and sanitized utensils.

 

The risk from hazards we found are from biological,physical and not so much in chemical and no allergenics because beforehand, we ask them if they're allergic to some certain foods or drinks.

 

Our process are...purchase/ receive/ storage/ issue/ thawing/ preparation/ cooking/ holding/ transport/ holding/ serve.

 

Thanks

RALH

 

 

[Simon]

Hi Ralh,

 

My first thought off the top of my head is no.

The hazards at this point should be controlled by your PRP's, GMP, personal hygiene etc.

 

Maybe others will disagree.

 

Regards,

Simon

[Nertila Topi]

Hi Ralf,

 

Yes, it is a CCP, you must have to control the time and temperature of storage before the food are servering, temperature and time of the truck, where you deliver the product.

[RALH]

Hi Ralh,

 

My first thought off the top of my head is no.

The hazards at this point should be controlled by your PRP's, GMP, personal hygiene etc.

 

Maybe others will disagree.

 

Regards,

Simon

 

 

Hi, Simon,

 

First of all, those were the first thing we're implimenting before serving, ensuring the food that being serve are all safe. We thought of this scenario.....What if? in any circumstances the food server is having a contageous desease and accidentally sneezed right into the food or he or she touched the food because he or she is not wearing any gloves, is there any way to eliminate the bacteria or virus that already contaminated the food? The only option is to throw the food, but again what if? there's no more replacement for that particular food which is the same as the contaminated one? 

So, we decided to make serving as CCP.

 

Before the service, i'm giving instruction to my team to check all people involved in that particular event, whether they are following our work instructions regarding GMP'S, personal hygiene, etc. we also have swab testing to check if they washed their hands before serving.

 

Thanks

RALH

[Simon]

Hi Ralf,

 

Yes, it is a CCP, you must have to control the time and temperature of storage before the food are servering, temperature and time of the truck, where you deliver the product.

 

Thanks for your input, I think though Ralh is talking about hazards caused by the server themselves and not the food (time / temp etc.) which I agree can be CCP's.

.

 

 

Hi, Simon,

 

First of all, those were the first thing we're implimenting before serving, ensuring the food that being serve are all safe. We thought of this scenario.....What if? in any circumstances the food server is having a contageous desease and accidentally sneezed right into the food or he or she touched the food because he or she is not wearing any gloves, is there any way to eliminate the bacteria or virus that already contaminated the food? The only option is to throw the food, but again what if? there's no more replacement for that particular food which is the same as the contaminated one? 

So, we decided to make serving as CCP.

 

Before the service, i'm giving instruction to my team to check all people involved in that particular event, whether they are following our work instructions regarding GMP'S, personal hygiene, etc. we also have swab testing to check if they washed their hands before serving.

 

Thanks

RALH

 

As I said it's not my area, but I don't believe it is a CCP.  If it is then there would be many CCP's in food businesses related to people. Usually these are controlled by the other means previously mentioned. If the employee has a contagious disease that threatens food safety they need to report it and be excluded from handling food.  That should be part of your procedures.

 

Of course if you want to have strict rules related to personal hygiene and what they should / should not do in specific situations as mentioned then it is a very good idea.

 

Regards,

Simon

[Nertila Topi]

Hi Ralf

 

If you think that take this dish with food and servering to a customer is a CCP, what if?, You are wrong, becouse the contamination with any bacteria or virus is in a small concentration to be a hazard. What if? the gloves are storage of the gloves are in a open place with the high concentration air contamination???.

 

 

Best Regards

 

Nertila

[RALH]

Hi Ralf,

 

Yes, it is a CCP, you must have to control the time and temperature of storage before the food are servering, temperature and time of the truck, where you deliver the product.

 

 

Hi nertilatopi,

 

Yes we have all those things, our area of operation is not that big or far from the kitchen, more or less 10 minutes from the production area (kitchen). All foods we're logged from the time of receiving from the main kitchen to the time it reached the operation area. We placed the hot food in an insulated plastic box via delivery van and from the operation area, once they received it...they record the temperature and quickly put it in our hot holding equipment, e.g. warmer. Usually our event took only 1 hour to complete the serving.

 

Thanks

RALH

[RALH]

Is there anymore suggestions or comment before we again make a decision whether we keep "serving" a CCP? We revised our haccp plan only recently, so there's plenty of time before our surveillance audit next year.

 

 

[dv8dawn]

Yes it could be CCP….but in my personal opinion no…it all depends on you and your Management perception about CCP’s…would you believe our international brand hotel chain is having 11 CCP’s as a matter of fact Management made all the process step as CCP’s……in this case, why do we need Oprp/PRP/GHP/GAP e.t.c. however…

[RALH]

 

Yes it could be CCP….but in my personal opinion no…it all depends on you and your Management perception about CCP’s…would you believe our international brand hotel chain is having 11 CCP’s as a matter of fact Management made all the process step as CCP’s……in this case, why do we need Oprp/PRP/GHP/GAP e.t.c. however…

 

 I guess we have an ice breaker here, since I don't have any issue on my last audit, i'll leave "serving" alone. you guys right, Oprp/ PRP, etc. will do the job. thanks dv8dawn.

[RALH]

Hi Ralh,

 

My first thought off the top of my head is no.

The hazards at this point should be controlled by your PRP's, GMP, personal hygiene etc.

 

Maybe others will disagree.

 

Regards,

Simon

you are absolutely right

[Charles.C]

Hi RALH,

 

Some intriguing speculations.

 

I cannot see any mention so far as to which FS standard is actually being audited. This may restrict the possibilities but i will assume all options are available.

 

I suggest it may be easier to perform  a formal haccp procedure such as in Codex/NACMCF, eg  - 

 

(1)  Define / "Justify" yr Prerequisite Programs.

(2)  Perform a Hazard Analysis to Risk Assess the justified hazards.

(3)  Determine any Significant hazards which will necessitate control by CCP/OPRP.

 

TBH, I anticipate that the typical situation as proposed in OP has been  frequently discussed in the literature although you may still prefer to "go yr own way". The latter choice  is  unquestionably (haccp) acceptable if validatable.

 

For example, if you like the ISO-way, the list in this post may solve yr problem -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ing/#entry93401

 

Or perhaps consider the USFDA approach -

 

 FDA haccp manual food service and retail establishments.pdf   555.5KB   30 downloads

 

 

[RALH]

Hi, Charles

 

Our certificate is  ISO22000:2005. Thanks.

[consulti]

Hi Rahl,

 

The serving time temperature would be a CCP but if you are looking at handling the food or the food service norms that needs to be handled by PRP's.

 

Thanks 

Consulti

[shelendra]

Hello ,

 

During our monthly meeting a question came up regarding the storage of hot food above the danger zone ( 60C) . We want to hold food above 60 C  for 5 hours on buffet

 

How many hours one can keep the hot food if maintained above 60 C ?

 

What are the hazards we are worried about ? Clostridium will not be multiplying and IMO its more like spoilage issue than any food pathogen

 

 

Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts , references will be appreciated