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#26 Simon

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 03:49 PM

So for example, if a management team takes the process approach seriously, involves internal and external customers and suppliers in process reviews, and so on, one can demonstrate compliance to clause 8.2.2 with no need for auditors or auditing AND can put in place practice that is more beneficial than the sort of apology for auditing that is typically tolerated by the certification bodies.


Jim, if I read you correct Yell's Certification Body have allowed them to ditch internal auditing in favour of process reviews (and so on), which the CB accept as meeting the requirements of 8.2.2 (shalls and all).

Jim can you provide more details on what they do.

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#27 Jim Wade

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 08:39 PM

Jim, if I read you correct Yell's Certification Body have allowed them to ditch internal auditing in favour of process reviews (and so on), which the CB accept as meeting the requirements of 8.2.2 (shalls and all).

Jim can you provide more details on what they do.

Regards,
Simon


All I know for sure about Yell, Simon, is that they no longer do audits and that they invoked self assessment as [at least part of] their way of meeting the requirements of 8.2.2. i hope to know more soon.

Here's how another audit-free organisation summarises its approach:

For many of our employees, mention of ISO 9001 Internal Audits evokes memories of auditors chasing auditees to catch up with internal audit schedules in the name of ensuring records are up to date for the benefit of the certification body; ‘to keep the badge'. At NKUK we did not want to instigate a similar such process in our new business, we could not see that it would be beneficial in terms of meeting our business aims. So, we said ‘no' to Internal Audits.

However, we did want a system for reviewing the way our business operates, at regular intervals, in order to improve our effectiveness in terms of meeting the company's objectives (essentially to win work!).

We developed our business in the form of four key, top-level processes, each owned by one of the Directors.

Our Business Processes are reviewed regularly, looking at information feeding into the process (inputs), information produced for the next process (outputs) and identifying ways of improving the mechanics. This exercise is termed the Process Review. Generally, the Process owner (a Director), one person from each of the upstream and downstream processes and a facilitator are present at the review (non-confrontational!). The result of the meeting is a series of actions, to improve the process in question, carried out by anyone available (Directors and Engineers alike - this ensures everyone gets involved in shaping the business). The results and actions from process review are revisited in the Management Review to check progress.

By carrying out a desk study to ensure the business processes are compliant with ISO9001:2000 - for the whole system at the outset and from then on only for changes made to the system - we believe we have met the requirements of clause 8.2.2 of ISO 9001:2000, and our certification body agrees.

Esam Bakhsh, Nippon Koei UK

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#28 Simon

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 08:26 PM

This exercise is termed the Process Review. Generally, the Process owner (a Director), one person from each of the upstream and downstream processes and a facilitator are present at the review (non-confrontational!). The result of the meeting is a series of actions, to improve the process in question, carried out by anyone available (Directors and Engineers alike - this ensures everyone gets involved in shaping the business).

Process improvement is really quite easy when you strip away the techniques, acronyms and complicated diagrams. Who cares whether it meets ISO 9001 or not, I believe this approach operating throughout the business will deliver more value to all stakeholders than internal auditing ever could. :o

Thanks Jim; certainly interesting stuff, please keep us posted if you find out more.

Cheers,
Simon
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#29 Jean

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for the very useful link and was informative for my latest project.


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J

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#30 Simon

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:28 AM

Thanks for the very useful link and was informative for my latest project.

Glad such an old topic is still valuable to you Jean. It makes me smile. :biggrin:

Thanks for saying thanks. It matters.

Regards,
Simon
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#31 Jean

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 02:08 PM

Dear Simon,

Thanks for the positive note. I am glad.


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J

Only the curious will learn and only the resolute overcome the obstacles to learning. The quest quotient has always excited me more than the intelligence quotient. Eugene S Wilson




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