13 replies to this topic

[GrumpyJimmy]

We are having a 'debate' about not wearing hair nets when making wine/cider as everything is micro sieved and would not contaminate and also in despatch area where bottles are in boxes. I insist ppe should be warn in all areas as you should prevent any kind of contaminate whether it is micro sieved or not. We are looking at going for BRC also and i imagine this practace would be frowned upon.

 

Please discuss

 

j

[Charles.C]

We are having a 'debate' about not wearing hair nets when making wine/cider as everything is micro sieved and would not contaminate and also in despatch area where bottles are in boxes. I insist ppe should be warn in all areas as you should prevent any kind of contaminate whether it is micro sieved or not. We are looking at going for BRC also and i imagine this practace would be frowned upon.

 

Please discuss

 

j

 

Hi dw,

 

from BRC7 (for Production Areas) -
 

Protective clothing shall be available that:

•  is provided in sufficient numbers for each employee
•  is of suitable design to prevent contamination of the product (as a minimum containing no external
pockets above the waist or sewn-on buttons)
•  fully contains all scalp hair to prevent product contamination
•  includes snoods for beards and moustaches, where required, to prevent product contamination.

 

 

Unusually for BRC, the clause appears to not contain a "based on risk" opportunity.

[whiskylass]

Hi Daddywelsh

 

I feel your pain.  I work in whisky and rum bottling and we went through the same issues but we now wear coats and hairnets in all food areas.  Despatch is safety jacket with no hairnets as it is on lower ground floor so more than enough segregation from the production hall.  Fortunately for me a lot of this was in place when I first started but I have amended slightly over the years.

 

To determine what should be worn where risk assessments were carried out.

 

It was a major culture change to staff but they now see it as the norm and realise its impact when auditors and visitors comment on how everyone looks uniformed and smart in their overalls.  Auditors are pleased at the controls we have in place and can see that even though we are low risk (fully enclosed also with various filtration steps) we still think high risk at times.  I have a feeling BRC will push more and more for all manufacturing sites to have hairnets in place as they are certainly driving that food and drink all come under one roof.

 

I hope that you get it all sorted 

 

 

[RosieMolly]

Hi Daddywelsh,

We too are making wine. We have hairnets and beard snoods available for staff and we tell them at inductions that they will need to wear them if either their hair is not tied back or their beards are unkempt and long. We have been through 3 BRC audits now and the auditors are fine with this (so far!).

Our policy states "Keep long hair tied up and keep beards and moustaches neat and trimmed. Hairnets and beard snoods are available, if required".

We do at times need to keep reminding people of the policy, and we have not needed to use nets or snoods yet. We assessed the risk of contamination of the product as low and we show this assessment to the auditors each time.

I too are keen to hear how others get on.

[GrumpyJimmy]

Hi Daddywelsh,

We too are making wine. We have hairnets and beard snoods available for staff and we tell them at inductions that they will need to wear them if either their hair is not tied back or their beards are unkempt and long. We have been through 3 BRC audits now and the auditors are fine with this (so far!).

Our policy states "Keep long hair tied up and keep beards and moustaches neat and trimmed. Hairnets and beard snoods are available, if required".

We do at times need to keep reminding people of the policy, and we have not needed to use nets or snoods yet. We assessed the risk of contamination of the product as low and we show this assessment to the auditors each time.

I too are keen to hear how others get on.

 

Thank You RosieMolly its nice to see a balanced approach towards the issue. Im with you, it would be good to see the different ways people apply their sites to this.

[GMO]

I think you need to balance up the risk of contamination but also the risk of annoying an auditor.  Is wearing a mob cap hard work?  No.  Where there are any open products or ingredients therefore, just make them wear it.  You should not be relying on a sieve to take out hair.  It reminds me of when Homer tastes a new beer at Mo's Tavern and the flash back goes to the manufacturing site where some operations person says "needs more dog!"  Seriously would your consumers be happy knowing you sieve out the hair?  Ew, no.  You also should think about the microflora present on the hair and how that could impact on your brewing. 

 

In despatch areas which are segregated it's fair enough to have no hair nets or mob caps.

[kiwi-james]

I think you need to balance up the risk of contamination but also the risk of annoying an auditor.  Is wearing a mob cap hard work?  No.  Where there are any open products or ingredients therefore, just make them wear it.  You should not be relying on a sieve to take out hair.  It reminds me of when Homer tastes a new beer at Mo's Tavern and the flash back goes to the manufacturing site where some operations person says "needs more dog!"  Seriously would your consumers be happy knowing you sieve out the hair?  Ew, no.  You also should think about the microflora present on the hair and how that could impact on your brewing. 

 

In despatch areas which are segregated it's fair enough to have no hair nets or mob caps.

 

I appreciate your stance from a "do everything you can towards food safety" point of view but to bring some reality to this... Grapes are grown outside, often mechanically harvested and crushed as picked, no washing or cleaning of any kind. I have personally watched all kinds of detritus go into a grape crush from a surprisingly large number of bees to hair, snails, bird poop, steel nails, bits of post etc. All commercial wine production has sulfur dioxide present to address the microbial side of things so that isn't really of concern either.  

[GMO]

I appreciate your stance from a "do everything you can towards food safety" point of view but to bring some reality to this... Grapes are grown outside, often mechanically harvested and crushed as picked, no washing or cleaning of any kind. I have personally watched all kinds of detritus go into a grape crush from a surprisingly large number of bees to hair, snails, bird poop, steel nails, bits of post etc. All commercial wine production has sulfur dioxide present to address the microbial side of things so that isn't really of concern either.  

 

So I'll stop people wearing hairnets in milk bottling?  Seriously every food stuff starts at a farm with poorer controls.  You can argue the same about cocoa beans arriving at a cocoa processing site.

[GrumpyJimmy]

So I'll stop people wearing hairnets in milk bottling?  Seriously every food stuff starts at a farm with poorer controls.  You can argue the same about cocoa beans arriving at a cocoa processing site.

For me the thought of customers knowing there was a potential for hair for example to fall into product and were just filtered out rather than eliminating the risk via hairnets etc is wrong. Im sure we would lose a good few customers if they new the truth

[GMO]

For me the thought of customers knowing there was a potential for hair for example to fall into product and were just filtered out rather than eliminating the risk via hairnets etc is wrong. Im sure we would lose a good few customers if they new the truth

 

I agree, that was my point.

[FurFarmandFork]

You can borrow FDA food code standards and do caps of some kind instead (like baseball caps). Your employees will probably like this better and it could potentially placate a larger portion of auditors.

[GrumpyJimmy]

You can borrow FDA food code standards and do caps of some kind instead (like baseball caps). Your employees will probably like this better and it could potentially placate a larger portion of auditors.

Thanks FurFarmandFork,that is a great ploy but i litterally think they would murder their own children over anything that is considered  'change'    , when we get a kicking come BRC in a couple of weeks im sure things will speed up

[peeviewonder]

I work in dairy, so everyone wears hairnets all the time. I know a lot of brewers, and they all say that they don't need hairnets because they filter their product. I would lean more towards wearing one. It is not hard to do, it is not uncomfortable. It is a culture shift and people will probably not like it, but if you are looking at BRC it is a no-brainer. Good luck.

[GMO]

I work in dairy, so everyone wears hairnets all the time. I know a lot of brewers, and they all say that they don't need hairnets because they filter their product. I would lean more towards wearing one. It is not hard to do, it is not uncomfortable. It is a culture shift and people will probably not like it, but if you are looking at BRC it is a no-brainer. Good luck.

 

Completely agree.  All milk is filtered but it would never be used as an excuse.  In my mind it falls into the JFDI group of compliance rules.  It's not hard, it's not expensive, just try and give me a reason not to do it because frankly it's going to be an excuse.