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#1 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 04:09 PM

Hi,

we want to supply silicone parchment/ patty paper to our clients in the food industry, namely those producing burgers. Our supplier is certified ISO9001, FDA COMPLIANT, FSC certificate and has SGS certification.

Our customers who have HACCP certification, ISO 22000, requires us to have also to have  ISO22000, IFS, BRS, FSSC22000 also. They say that the patty paper is in direct contact with food so they need food safety guarantee.

 

Can you please help me understand if we really need to produce these additional certificates ? are they important for the client ? the actual certificates are not compliant enough or suitable enough for food safety ?

 

thks for your help.

 

 


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#2 FurFarmandFork

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:43 PM

If your competitors have them, then the answer is yes, you need them. You supply an ingredient in direct contact with high-risk product and it's reasonable to expect a food safety standard to be maintained.

 

That being said, they can only require what the market can provide. So I mention again, if your competitors have those certifications, you should get them. If they do not, you have no reason to worry that your customers can simply go somewhere else.


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#3 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:53 AM

Thk you FurFarmandFork I understand, I need to see with the supplier now who is from China.

But since the SGS certificate demonstrate that the product, processes, etc are compliant with international regulations standards, they inspect, verify and test the product in this case they have tested the paper paper, in your opinion do you think it can replace this ISO22000 certificate ?

 

Do you know if it is a long process to obtain the ISO22000 certificate ?

 

thks for your opinion and reply

 

 

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#4 BrummyJim

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:20 AM

Hi Catounnette,

 

What exactly have SGS certified? My understanding is they will provide certification audits against various standards such as ISO9001, BRC, IFS etc. as well as CoA's. What do you have?


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#5 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:03 AM

Hi BrummyJim 

What the Chinese supplier tells me is that SGS is the test required by the FDA (certificate which they have), they test for example for this patty paper the Chloroform residue.

The supplier says that in China it is the FDA/SGS report which is important and which is considered as the food grade certificate, the other certificates

such as BRC or IFS is more for Europe and for ISO22000 they dont have it, for them they need the ISO9001 and they also have the FSC certificate.

So I am a bit lost, I really dont know if these certificates, I mean the FDA/SGS, the ISO9001 and FSC certificates are enough or ok to prove that that the paper

is food grade and safe for use with contact with food.

 

Thks for your help on this.


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#6 BrummyJim

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:19 AM

I think I understand now. Am I right in thinking that you are the middleman here? There is a manufacturer and some end users, with you in the middle. Do you provide and added value such as repacking? If so, you should be looking at BRC or IFS packaging (FSSC22000 also has a packaging option), if all you do is work as an agent you should be investigating the Agent & Broker options of IFS or BRC. You might also be a warehouse or similar in which case there are warehousing options (BRC and IFS). 

 

These standards are useful and you really only need to work with one of them as most customers consider them equivalent.


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#7 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:54 PM

I think I understand now. Am I right in thinking that you are the middleman here? (yes exact, i buy and resell to clients) There is a manufacturer and some end users, with you in the middle. Do you provide and added value such as repacking? (no not at all I only buy and resell ) If so, you should be looking at BRC or IFS packaging (FSSC22000 also has a packaging option), if all you do is work as an agent you should be investigating the Agent & Broker options of IFS or BRC. ( yes i am only the middleman here, yes may be I should consider it but I dont know here in Mauritius if we have companies delivering these certifications, but for the time being do you think the FDA-SGS certification, ISO9001, FSC from the chinese supplier can work as guarantee for food grade products ?......In China they do not have the BRC or IFS or FSSC22000 certificates.)  You might also be a warehouse or similar in which case there are warehousing options (BRC and IFS). 

 

These standards are useful and you really only need to work with one of them as most customers consider them equivalent.


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#8 BrummyJim

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:33 PM

The challenge you will have is that customers are pushing their suppliers to have some relevant certificate (BRC, IFS, FSSC22000 SQF etc.). As a reseller, it will generally be you and not your supplier that they will look at.

 

I approve our suppliers, and although this year I am looking at the original manufacturer more than the reseller, next year this will almost certainly be different as the standards change. I will require my first tier suppliers to have a quality certificate, ideally food safety based as we deal in foods, but at least ISO9001 (and possibly HACCP). This change is due to the introduction by GFSI of a brokers standard. That certificate will demonstrate to me that they have chosen their suppliers carefully, and I do not need to ask further.

 

I think you will find that BRC at least is growing in popularity in China; some of my supplier have it.


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#9 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:17 PM

Ok thanks I think i understand better what I need to do, but one last question a supplier selling paper products only (grease proof, patty paper ect..) does he need to have an HACCP certificate ? 

 

thks.


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#10 BrummyJim

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:19 PM

If it's food grade, I believe the answer would be yes.


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#11 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:27 PM

Yes sure it is food grade... but as i said in China they say they don't have HACCP certificate and for them it is more a FDA-SGS certificate which replaces that, the issue is that can we consider it same ???


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#12 BrummyJim

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:49 PM

I don't know anything about the FDA-SGS certificate, so I can't answer that. Maybe someone from the US might have a view. Sorry.


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#13 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:56 PM

no problem thks anyway for your good advice.


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#14 FurFarmandFork

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:21 PM

Your chinese supplier is providing all the appropriate documentation for export and legality. Your customers are requiring a higher standard in order to maintain their own GFSI certifications.

 

Foreign suppliers often get frustrated by this. The fact is that I find more and more to meet a GFSI standard for supplier approval (and not just FDA's standards) I have to source domestically.

 

Short answer, no. The general legal inspections for your suppliers to meet import standards set by USFDA and others aren't going to be enough for your customers with GFSI schemes. They need to source from a supplier with an equivalent certification, whether that's you as the broker or upstream at the actual manufacturer. It's a voluntary standard but to keep their certification they require that level of inspection cerificate since they likely can't go on-site to perform audits themselves.


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#15 CATOUNNETTE

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:36 PM

Oh thank you very much for this indepth explanation...humm that does not smell good for me then !!....I found good chinese suppliers for this product with good prices but with missing certificates and on the other hand suppliers from Europe or USA their prices are much higher and not competitive but they all have the required certifications....what a pity !

Thanks again for your help.


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