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Willis Morgan

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:35 PM

I am getting a HACCP plan put together for a new product, and I am having trouble finding good information on temp's and time it takes to kill Listeria. The product is a cubed potato that is blanched. Currently our product spec that we received from our customer requested the temp to be 170 degree's F with a time of 4.5 minutes for their products.



Charles.C

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:57 PM

I am getting a HACCP plan put together for a new product, and I am having trouble finding good information on temp's and time it takes to kill Listeria. The product is a cubed potato that is blanched. Currently our product spec that we received from our customer requested the temp to be 170 degree's F with a time of 4.5 minutes for their products.

 

Hi Willis,

 

You probably mean L.monocytogenes.

 

The usual minimum requirement quoted is for a 6D reduction and is to maintain 70degC / 2minutes at slowest heating point in the product . This assumes a "typical" "z value."

 

170degF = approx. 76.6degC so, assuming the above conditions mentioned, the combination in OP exceeds the minimum requirements from a L.mono POV.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Willis Morgan

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:14 PM

Thanks Charles for this information, do you know of any studies i could look at or have on hand for my documentation of this?



Chippy

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:18 PM

Go to FDA site and search "The Big Bug Book" lots of good info in there.



Charles.C

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:28 PM

Thanks Charles for this information, do you know of any studies i could look at or have on hand for my documentation of this?

 

Hi Willis,

 

see pgs 13-14 in  attachment below -

 

Attached File  ECFF_Recommendations production chilled food 2006.pdf   402.26KB   138 downloads


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Willis Morgan

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:36 PM

Perfect thanks again Charles



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Parkz58

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:44 PM

Here's another source that lists not just L. monocytogenes, but also a few other bad bugs...

 

https://www.hindawi....ro/2012/196841/



Charles.C

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:28 PM

Here's another source that lists not just L. monocytogenes, but also a few other bad bugs...

 

https://www.hindawi....ro/2012/196841/

 

Hi Parkz,

 

I don't see any mention of L.mono. data?

 

This is a rather different approach to the traditional lethality challenge studies. Interesting but different (i think).


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Parkz58

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:52 PM

Dang...you are right, Charles.C - I think I posted the wrong link.  Is there any way to delete or edit my previous post?

 

I will look to see if I have something similar for L. mono. - I thought I did, anyway...

 

I agree with your point about it being different, but it appears to have accomplished the same goal - I appreciated the fact that it gave one simple diagram partway through that shows all three pathogens (I believe I saved this one because of the information about Salmonella) on a time/temp comparison, which helped me with my hazard analysis and determination of CCPs and control points (we have a steaming unit that reaches above 200 degrees F, and I just wanted something that gave evidence that at that temperature, pathogens were eradicated within 1 second).



Charles.C

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:16 AM

Dang...you are right, Charles.C - I think I posted the wrong link.  Is there any way to delete or edit my previous post?

 

I will look to see if I have something similar for L. mono. - I thought I did, anyway...

 

I agree with your point about it being different, but it appears to have accomplished the same goal - I appreciated the fact that it gave one simple diagram partway through that shows all three pathogens (I believe I saved this one because of the information about Salmonella) on a time/temp comparison, which helped me with my hazard analysis and determination of CCPs and control points (we have a steaming unit that reaches above 200 degrees F, and I just wanted something that gave evidence that at that temperature, pathogens were eradicated within 1 second).

 

Hi Parkz,

 

It's no problem. Diversity can be rewarding.

 

TBH, some of  the heat-related maths was a bit over my head but the concept of (initially) focussing on surface temperatures is rather novel (I think).

 

From a quick look, I get the impression that the article is ultimately suggesting that the "Rest of the World" may be using (highly ?) unreliable D data to predict safe thermal requirements for certain cooking processes. Looks like this research may be within an overall Project scheme -

http://www.sciencedi...168160509005376

 

Just as another, historical, illustration, here is a detailed analysis of a  different scenario (UK sausages,2002) but also ending with some analogous and rather scary (to me) conclusions -

http://onlinelibrary...02.01721.x/full

 

These articles/results seem quite alarming if a realistic appraisal of actual situations. I'm not aware if labelled cooking instructions for UK sausages were audited (validated/adjusted ?) as suggested in the latter article.

 

Hmmmm.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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