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#1 tripple_sud

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 02:03 AM

Wonder if I could please get your opinion.
 
I just got back from the butcher. I ordered some beef for the holiday. The butcher handled the meat without gloves, wrapped the meat and wiped his hands on his apron. I didn't notice him doing this. He then handled my credit card.
 
I washed my hands after. I'm worried about the meat being unsafe to eat. It's currently in the freezer.
 
Should I throw it out?
 
Thanks so much
 


#2 SQFconsultant

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 12:16 AM

So, who was it that told you this happened, since you said: "I didn't notice him doing this."  ??


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#3 tripple_sud

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 12:47 AM

Wife saw it.

Any thoughts on my question?



#4 Charles.C

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 04:58 AM

 

Wonder if I could please get your opinion.
 
I just got back from the butcher. I ordered some beef for the holiday. The butcher handled the meat without gloves, wrapped the meat and wiped his hands on his apron. I didn't notice him doing this. He then handled my credit card.
 
I washed my hands after. I'm worried about the meat being unsafe to eat. It's currently in the freezer.
 
Should I throw it out?
 
Thanks so much

 

 

Hi TS,

 

Some possibly relevant data is lacking, eg -

 

You did not inform as to whether the meat is RTE or NRTE. The former would further strengthen my opinion below by a large factor.

 

I ASSUME YOU HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE SOURCE OF YR MEAT PRESENTS AN INTRINSIC SAFETY RISK TO CONSUMERS ?.

 

I ASSUME YOU HAVE NO REASON TO DISBELIEVE YR WIFE ?.

 

I ASSUME YR LOCAL ENVIRONMENT IS SUCH THAT IYO THE UNHYGIENIC ACTIONS  WHICH YOU OBSERVED ARE  ATYPICAL ?.

(if otherwise the choice may simply be between accepting defects such as those mentioned or starvation ?).

 

If Yes then IMO you may have "reasonable doubt" as to the health safety of consuming the specific meat product.

 

Personally, based on yr OP comments, i would probably not consume such meat.

 

On the other hand,  you may be a highly non-Risk averse person or believe that any safety defects in raw foods can be "repaired" by cooking ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 tripple_sud

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 05:22 AM

Sorry, was raw beef, Prime Rib. The place is spotless. Usually the butcher wears gloves and promptly changes the gloves to operate the register. This time bare hands as I said originally.

We didn’t eat the meat yet (got chicken).

Be a shame to dump it but if that’s the consensus then we will (very expensive meat).

Thanks for the responses.



#6 FurFarmandFork

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:13 PM

If you've refrigerated, thawed, and cooked it thoroughally I wouldn't throw it out. Thats with the little information your provided. It's your health, your decision.


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#7 GMO

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:36 PM

No, the raw meat is likely to be a source of contamination, e.g. E Coli.  There is a risk that with those behaviours the butcher may also have cross contaminated from poultry so I'd also be wary of Salmonella.  The best tip is to freeze (that does reduce coliforms anyway) defrost thoroughly before cooking and fully cook the outside of the meat.  If you're really concerned or from a high risk group, cook it through.

 

Your main concern is your credit card which has now contaminated your wallet and you every time you touch it!  I'd be tempted to give both a clean!



#8 Madam A. D-tor

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:57 PM

I personally wouldn't be worried about this.

The meat will be cooked.

 

Furthermore in my opinion, the use of gloves give a false feeling of food safety.

If he had no plasters, wounds or jewellery on his hands, the risk is not much higher than if he had handled your meat wearing gloves.


Kind Regards,

Madam A. D-tor

#9 GrumpyJimmy

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:36 AM

Im with FurFarmandFork & Madam A.D-tor, if there was no obvious signs of cuts or jewellery with a potential to harbour nastys and you have handled sensibly, i would eat it having cooked it reasonably.

 

Maybe give your card a wipe but to be fair how many places has that been anyway, how many hands........... again im not concerned. 

 

J



#10 Charles.C

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:00 AM

Hi TS,

 

Perhaps a little more context would be useful -

 

(1) Are you a regular customer of this butcher ?

(2) If yes, is this the first time any "hygienic" incident has occurred/been observed ?

(3) Did yr wife have any impression as to the cleanliness of the butcher's apron ?

(4) Was the meat stored in a refrigerated cabinet, on display with ice, or  ?

(5) Was beef the only type of meat being handled ?

(6) How do you normally cook such a meat joint ?

 

FWIW, based on a previous thread here, the USDA permit portions of raw meat which fall onto the process floor to be processed as normal after washing.

 

This discussion and the later follow-up queries may be of some interest -

 

https://cooking.stac...ill-safe-to-eat

 

And some cooking suggestions -

 

https://www.thespruc...eratures-913410


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#11 TimGoss

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 01:27 PM

I am kind of shocked at most of these responses, I guess I am in the minority. Based off of the info you provided I just don't feel the risk is enough to justify throwing it away (for my own consumption). If you have someone eating this that is "at higher risk" such as elderly,immunocompromised, or very young then it ups the risk to a point that might push it over the toss it out threshold. I am usually fairly strict when it comes to "toss it or keep it", but if you are cooking the meat to a safe temperature I personally would eat it.

Once again, to iterate, this is personal opinion based off of what I would eat. If you are wary enough to come on a food safety forum and ask about it, you might not even be in the right mind frame to enjoy it while eating because you will be constantly thinking of the possible consequences.



#12 Charles.C

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 03:00 AM

I am kind of shocked at most of these responses, I guess I am in the minority. Based off of the info you provided I just don't feel the risk is enough to justify throwing it away (for my own consumption). If you have someone eating this that is "at higher risk" such as elderly,immunocompromised, or very young then it ups the risk to a point that might push it over the toss it out threshold. I am usually fairly strict when it comes to "toss it or keep it", but if you are cooking the meat to a safe temperature I personally would eat it.

Once again, to iterate, this is personal opinion based off of what I would eat. If you are wary enough to come on a food safety forum and ask about it, you might not even be in the right mind frame to enjoy it while eating because you will be constantly thinking of the possible consequences.

 

Hi Tim,

 

The difficulty for me is that IMO many of the potential risks in the OP as described are unknown/unquantifiable. (HACCP would be invoking PRPs).

IMO this includes reliance on cooking to ensure a "safe" product.

I am also unfamiliar with "steak" in respect to its safety track record.

 

Hence some of my previous follow-up queries.

 

I also tend in general to have a Risk Averse nature.

So, in the absence of data, i tend to anticipate a worst case scenario and try to act accordingly. It's popularly known as the "Precautionary Principle".

 

However i admit that such scientifically noble(?) ideals might at times be influenced by the level of investment. :smile:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#13 sqflady

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:23 PM

I wouldn't consider it high risk.  In foodservice in the US, it is acceptable to handle raw products without gloves because it will be cooked.  Gloves are only required for RTE foods.  I would cook it thoroughly and eat it without hesitation.   Of course I'd sanitize that credit card!!



#14 Charles.C

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:52 PM

I wouldn't consider it high risk.  In foodservice in the US, it is acceptable to handle raw products without gloves because it will be cooked.  Gloves are only required for RTE foods.  I would cook it thoroughly and eat it without hesitation.   Of course I'd sanitize that credit card!!

 

Hi sqflady,

 

I can assure you that IMEX as a manufacturer, most US importers of raw seafood will not agree with the red. Perhaps a double standard is at work.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#15 FurFarmandFork

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:59 PM

Hi sqflady,

 

I can assure you that IMEX as a manufacturer, most US importers of raw seafood will not agree with the red. Perhaps a double standard is at work.

Very much depends on what agency is regulating you. And foodservice is not manufacturing. There's a hodgepodge of regulations in effect for food service at the state level.


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#16 Charles.C

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:28 AM

Very much depends on what agency is regulating you. And foodservice is not manufacturing. There's a hodgepodge of regulations in effect for food service at the state level.

 

Getting a bit OT. Seems the butcher usually did wear gloves.

 

For US imported seafood, afaik FDA have a monopoly.

I deduce you are saying that unlike RTE food where it seemed to me that  State  "foodservice" Regs are usually quite close to THE Food Code, NRTE is a free-for-all .

So be it. :smile:


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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