Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo

OK. Awkward situation. Toilets involved. Read at your own risk.

washroom bathroom toilet sanitaion ssop training morale

  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Evelynn

Evelynn

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 26 posts
  • 4 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:11 PM

Hi folks, just looking for a bit of input here.

 

Our facility grows indoor produce. We've got a bit of an issue with some of the staff displaying some less-than-ideal bathroom etiquette. 

 

Today our one of our sanitation employees went in to clean the washroom, and found that someone had defecated *on* the toilet (ie, seat, bottom of lid, hinge area, floor, etc).

It was cleaned up, documented and the employees were all re-trained on our GMP's and washroom etiquette, etc. 

 

Normally I wouldn't be urgently sharing this, but this is now the 4th time this has happened in a matter of weeks. 

The sanitation leader has mentioned that a couple of the situations were "very obviously intentional", and she's spoken with large groups of the staff about it as well. 

 

I've also hung signs in the washroom, and revised our training to include more detail on washroom procedure, but I'm now at a point where I don't know what to do.

Should we have one of the employees on modified duty act as a washroom attendant? Should we install a camera in the hall outside the washroom to monitor activity? I do understand that there may occasionally be accidents, and I have also been told by a few employees that there are sometimes cultural differences in the way folks use washrooms, but I'm beginning to think there may be a morale issue here (Which is possibly echoed by the increase of 420 graffiti on the bathroom stalls..)

 

Any ideas? 

 


  • 1

#2 FurFarmandFork

FurFarmandFork

    QA Manager/FS Blogger

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,001 posts
  • 460 thanks
64
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:22 PM

Sounds like a disgruntled employee more than a "cultural difference". Increase surveillance as needed to catch them in the act then terminate them. Someone willing to do that has no qualms about contaminating your product to hurt your business.


  • 1

QA Manager and food safety blogger in Oregon, USA.

 

Interested in more information on food safety and science? Check out Furfarmandfork.com for more insights!

Subscribe to have one post per week delivered straight to your inbox.

 


Thanked by 2 Members:

#3 GMO

GMO

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,383 posts
  • 554 thanks
73
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:58 PM

Personally I wouldn't discount a cultural difference, some people from different cultures struggle to defecate in a seated position because they are used to using squat toilets.  As a result, when encountering a seated toilet, they then squat, awkwardly on the seat and sometimes miss.  Other signs of this will be broken toilet seats.  Of course the right outcome would be to clean it up yourself but that then takes a very enthusiastic employee.

 

So I have a few ideas but I'd start with your employee committee (and if you don't have something like this, why not have one?)  I would bring it up and see if people can canvass other employees to find out why it's happening.  Also ask people to air grievances so you try and address that potential cause.

As for stopping people balancing on loo seats, there are a couple of options.  One is installing a squat toilet, another is getting a squatty potty but you'd need to explain to people what it's for which your employee committee could be good for.  Perhaps don't show the unicorn vid though, it may not go down well with your more delicate staff, although if they're pooing everywhere right now, it's pretty mild!  http://www.squattypotty.co.uk/


  • 1

Thanked by 2 Members:

#4 Non_entitie

Non_entitie

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 11 posts
  • 3 thanks
1
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 14 February 2018 - 01:13 AM

Another possibility is that it's occurring due to someone having difficulties with their colostomy bag (long shot, but not unheard of).  The behavior would still need to be corrected, but if the underlying problem is a medical one there may be additional considerations.  I don't know about Canada but in the U.S. there would be the potential for plenty of legal issues if handled inappropriately. 

 

In these situations though my bet is always on disgruntled employees.  Hopefully they decide to pursue other opportunities rather than make everyone else around them miserable.  Good luck!


  • 1

Thanked by 1 Member:

#5 redfox

redfox

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 411 posts
  • 117 thanks
10
Good

  • Philippines
    Philippines

Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:28 AM

Hello Evelynn,

 

My thought is that you need to re-train your employees on sanitation. Your HR must also step-in because it is more on behavioral aspects on the employees. It is a threat to your food safety. Have you reviewed your food defense plan?

 

regards,

redfox


  • 1

Thanked by 2 Members:

#6 SQFconsultant

SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 791 posts
  • 166 thanks
44
Excellent

  • Panama
    Panama
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:We specialize in helping small to mid-sized food companies to develop & implement SQF Systems to achieve certification in a relatively short period of time. Our operational area includes the Unites States, Costa Rica, Panama and the Caribbean.

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:50 AM

420 - as in gang related?

 

Document it with law enforcement and fire em.


  • 1

Warm regards,

 

Glenn Oster

 

SQF Registered Consultant - Certified for 29 FSC's

Serving clients in: USA, Costa Rica, Panama & Caribbean Islands

International Toll-Free: 800-546-1452

 

http://www.linkedin.com/in/getgoc

 

www.GlennOsterConsulting.com


#7 Charles.C

Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 13,452 posts
  • 3677 thanks
397
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:11 AM

Hi Evelynn,

 

I suppose it would depend upon the "details" but is it not also possible that some employee(s) is suffering from chonic diarrhoea ? (A potentially even more alarming possibility?)

 

I guess the practicality of any manual surveillance options would depend on the number of people / stalls /scheduling involved.


  • 1

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Thanked by 1 Member:

#8 BrummyJim

BrummyJim

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 329 posts
  • 115 thanks
25
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South West
  • Interests:Motorbike gone now. Only the dog to walk!

Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:32 AM

Hi Evelynn,

 

I experienced this a few years ago at another company. It transpired that the culprit was not a member of staff, but a disgruntled former agency person who was not given a permanent post. He had retained his entrance key and was "visiting" when the facility was unmanned. Have you checked for this possibility?


  • 0

#9 Plastic Ducky

Plastic Ducky

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 103 posts
  • 32 thanks
11
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas Texas
  • Interests:Food Safety, SQF Food Packaging, Nutrition, Conspiracy Theories (e.g. the food guide pyramid was corrupted by corporate interests and that's why we Americans are fat), Crypto-currencies, Netflix, Pluto TV, Church of FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monsterism).

Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:17 PM

Well......, if nobody else is going to say it then I guess I will have to. Graffiti is inherently wrong because it is destruction of property. That being said, I would interject an objection to the association of people who might use cannabis legally in a responsible manner be it for medicinal purposes or even recreationally as a responsible adult, and people who spray feces all about the bathroom like a maniac! 

 

I mean, speaking of different cultures and all, I would propose that the cultural acceptance of cannabis ranging from Mexico, up through the US and into Canada has changed dramatically within the last few decades.

 

I am certain that you have company policies against the use of cannabis.  As someone who does not use cannabis but is in FULL support of it's decriminalization I would suggest that the times of categorizing cannabis users as "wild maniac S##T bandits" should have expired by now in the year 2018. 


  • 1

#10 Plastic Ducky

Plastic Ducky

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 103 posts
  • 32 thanks
11
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas Texas
  • Interests:Food Safety, SQF Food Packaging, Nutrition, Conspiracy Theories (e.g. the food guide pyramid was corrupted by corporate interests and that's why we Americans are fat), Crypto-currencies, Netflix, Pluto TV, Church of FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monsterism).

Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:19 PM

and HI-FIVE to my man FFF for stating it was a "dis-GRUNT-led" employee!!


  • 0

#11 FurFarmandFork

FurFarmandFork

    QA Manager/FS Blogger

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,001 posts
  • 460 thanks
64
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:33 PM

420 - as in gang related?

 

Document it with law enforcement and fire em.

It's a cannabis thing Glen. https://en.wikipedia...nnabis_culture)

 

Agree with Ducky that the grafitti is also a property destruction issue, regardless of the "message".


  • 1

QA Manager and food safety blogger in Oregon, USA.

 

Interested in more information on food safety and science? Check out Furfarmandfork.com for more insights!

Subscribe to have one post per week delivered straight to your inbox.

 


#12 Evelynn

Evelynn

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 26 posts
  • 4 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:09 PM

So I have a few ideas but I'd start with your employee committee (and if you don't have something like this, why not have one?)  I would bring it up and see if people can canvass other employees to find out why it's happening.  Also ask people to air grievances so you try and address that potential cause.

 

We don't specifically have an employee committee; just our standard supervisor committees and the JHSC committees, and the JHSC committee had brought up the issue when it first occurred. If we have a morale issue, then an employee committee might not be a bad idea. We've recently decided to install a suggestion box for folks to anonymously leave feedback. 


  • 1

#13 Evelynn

Evelynn

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 26 posts
  • 4 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:11 PM

Another possibility is that it's occurring due to someone having difficulties with their colostomy bag (long shot, but not unheard of).  The behavior would still need to be corrected, but if the underlying problem is a medical one there may be additional considerations.  I don't know about Canada but in the U.S. there would be the potential for plenty of legal issues if handled inappropriately. 

 

In Canada, we most definitely have a big problem if this is handled incorrectly. I haven't been advised of anyone with a colostomy bag, but I will look into it. Thank you.


  • 1

#14 Evelynn

Evelynn

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 26 posts
  • 4 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:15 PM

Hi Evelynn,

 

I experienced this a few years ago at another company. It transpired that the culprit was not a member of staff, but a disgruntled former agency person who was not given a permanent post. He had retained his entrance key and was "visiting" when the facility was unmanned. Have you checked for this possibility?

 

Hi! Yes, the possibility of the involvement of our agency people had been included in our investigation thus far, but since this issue started, we've installed a keycode system with brand new codes, so I think it must be an employee. I've checked the visitor logs to see if there's a possibility if a contractor doing it, to no avail. I think it's a current employee. 


  • 1

#15 Evelynn

Evelynn

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 26 posts
  • 4 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:32 PM

Well......, if nobody else is going to say it then I guess I will have to. Graffiti is inherently wrong because it is destruction of property. That being said, I would interject an objection to the association of people who might use cannabis legally in a responsible manner be it for medicinal purposes or even recreationally as a responsible adult, and people who spray feces all about the bathroom like a maniac! 

 

I mean, speaking of different cultures and all, I would propose that the cultural acceptance of cannabis ranging from Mexico, up through the US and into Canada has changed dramatically within the last few decades.

 

I am certain that you have company policies against the use of cannabis.  As someone who does not use cannabis but is in FULL support of it's decriminalization I would suggest that the times of categorizing cannabis users as "wild maniac S##T bandits" should have expired by now in the year 2018. 

 

I should really address this, as my original post could have been worded differently.

In NO way do I find a correlation between cannabis users and sh*t bandits. I was merely pointing out the two separate issues of graffiti and toilet misuse as red flags for a morale problem. The only reason I mentioned the "420" bit, is because there's a 2 foot tall 420 (complete with bong), drawn in one of the stalls, which is what jumped out at me when I thought of it.

As an occasional user and advocate for the end of the stigma of cannabis users, I completely agree with you Plastic Ducky. I will choose my words more carefully going forward.

 

Also, I should address the context of the cultural differences that were mentioned to me by an employee. As GMO pointed out, this is an actual possibility, and I'm going to look into the Squatty Potty option (sans unicorn poo video), as I've spoken with our sanitation leader who has advised me she often wipes footprints off the seats.

So perhaps this is something worth revisiting. I'll of course need to find a way of training employees on the use of the types of toilets we use without coming off as offensive. I've found some training posters, issued by our province that might come in handy in the washroom.


  • 1

Thanked by 2 Members:

#16 Plastic Ducky

Plastic Ducky

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 103 posts
  • 32 thanks
11
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas Texas
  • Interests:Food Safety, SQF Food Packaging, Nutrition, Conspiracy Theories (e.g. the food guide pyramid was corrupted by corporate interests and that's why we Americans are fat), Crypto-currencies, Netflix, Pluto TV, Church of FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monsterism).

Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:01 PM

Evelynn,

 

:potplant:

 

It is time for educated professionals with scientific back grounds such as yourself to speak freely about such taboos without fear of persecution or detriment AND it is so so important that the public hears from people like you about it (and not just jacka#s graffiti people).  I commend you. I have no doubt that you have researched medical facts and formed your opinion well informed from a scientific perspective. We should all follow suit and put an end to one of the biggest scams against humanity that ever existed. Let the science reign supreme and the enlightenment begin. :clap:   


  • 0

Thanked by 1 Member:

#17 Evelynn

Evelynn

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 26 posts
  • 4 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:51 PM

Let the science reign supreme and the enlightenment begin. :clap:   

 

Damn right.


  • 0

#18 Ryan M.

Ryan M.

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 474 posts
  • 199 thanks
34
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Birmingham, AL
  • Interests:Reading, crosswords, passionate discussions, laughing at US politics.

Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:44 PM

Time to have a real honest meeting with all employees.  Make everyone aware of what has been seen / observed.   If you can install cameras do it, even if they are dummy cameras.

 

I would let the employees know this is last straw time...anyone found damaging property or leaving the restroom in such a situation will be terminated immediately.

 

In the long-term management has to decide what kind of employees to bring in and what that process will be to filter out the weeds.  If it is indeed a disgruntled employee then you have to look at how that occurred and take steps to prevent it with other employees.

 

Short term solution is much easier than the long term.  Good luck!


  • 0

#19 GMO

GMO

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 2,383 posts
  • 554 thanks
73
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:10 PM

Also, I should address the context of the cultural differences that were mentioned to me by an employee. As GMO pointed out, this is an actual possibility, and I'm going to look into the Squatty Potty option (sans unicorn poo video), as I've spoken with our sanitation leader who has advised me she often wipes footprints off the seats.

So perhaps this is something worth revisiting. I'll of course need to find a way of training employees on the use of the types of toilets we use without coming off as offensive. I've found some training posters, issued by our province that might come in handy in the washroom.

 

It is a very, very well known issue in Europe (including the UK, despite my country voting otherwise).  In fact in Switzerland, they have posters on the trains because of this problem.  

https://www.thelocal...ns-for-tourists

 

The conversations on this thread are the conversations I heard in the UK 10+ years ago.  The immediate thought to "it's someone deliberately doing this" but I'm yet to find anywhere that actually found that was the case in the end.  That said though, if someone has done this, they knew they did it and they chose not to clean it up but a lot of factories who recruit staff who are immigrants from South Asia and have done so over a few years install one or two squat toilets and find the issue goes away.  Perhaps the issue is and always has been "just accommodate me a little"?  The squatty potty is a cheaper place to start.  The thing is and I don't want to seem racist in saying this, not all people from that area of the world will be that proactive in coming forward to say "this is a problem" because it is embarrassing so if there is a member of staff who can help you bridge that gap, it will be vital in solving this issue.


  • 0





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: washroom, bathroom, toilet, sanitaion, ssop, training, morale

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users