7 replies to this topic

[SarahTQA]

Hi, I'm a first time poster and have really enjoyed all the information and collaboration on this network so far. Thanks for having me!

 

My Question is:

For BRC Issue 7, The internal auditing section says that the internal auditor must be independent of the area being audited. I am a consultant setting up a system for a client. 

None of the current employees would be suitable to complete internal auditing. Can I, as the consultant that wrote the program, also complete the internal audits for the site? Or at least the majority of them? There are some sections that the current staff could complete. 

 

Thank you

[mohamed ahmed yusuf]

Hello Sarah, 

Welcome :) 

Well , i faced also that point in my company and to overcome on this obstacle, as they didn't have experience enough to deal with the audit but they have a full experience about the plant so i made two steps: 

1. Dealing with my department about making internal audit training.

2. Creating a checklist for each group , each checklist containing questions about the clauses of BRC standard that they should audit on it , it was a trial with success 75%. 

3. Then a verification step should be done on the whole checklists. 

 

The participation of the team is very important especially for you , even that they haven't no experience about auditing.

 

Hope that i help you. 

[beautiophile]

It's very tricky for you.

I work as in the independent internal auditor department and we audit everything, except for the compliance of the Internal Audit SOI.

To do that, I ask our QC Manager, who is certified, to recursively assess our internal audit jobs against that SOI in BRC, e.g. planning, auditors' competences & training).

In your case as a consultant, I think you can audit all parts but not Internal Audit SOI, unless you let your signatures on any records / reports / documents. The problem is who will audit your works against the SOI. IMO, one certified man can do it, because it's much simpler than auditing the entire system.

Edited by beautiophile, 27 June 2018 - 07:47 AM.

[SQFconsultant]

Why is it, that as a consultant, you can't train or find a training program to train the site employees on how to conduct internal audits?

Several years ago we wrote our own internal auditor training program that has become rather popular.

With all of our system developments we include this program so that those that were not qualified to conduct the IA's could do so.

Anyone can be trained to do Internal Audits.

[Charles.C]

Hi, I'm a first time poster and have really enjoyed all the information and collaboration on this network so far. Thanks for having me!

 

My Question is:

For BRC Issue 7, The internal auditing section says that the internal auditor must be independent of the area being audited. I am a consultant setting up a system for a client. 

None of the current employees would be suitable to complete internal auditing. Can I, as the consultant that wrote the program, also complete the internal audits for the site? Or at least the majority of them? There are some sections that the current staff could complete. 

 

Thank you

 

Hi Sarah,

 

Offhand I would think that it may depend on precisely what you are actually assisting to do.

 

There are certainly other examples of IA flexibility on this forum, eg where very small companies were involved.

 

But I rather agree with post4 unless it's a high-tech. situation

[jdpaul]

Like you mentioned, some standards will reference objectivity and impartiality when dealing with the audit process. Some auditors may state that your audit process doesn't have independence, objectivity because you are auditing what you are the process owner of.

 

ISO 9001 clause 9.2.2 c) "select auditors and conduct audits to ensure objectivity and the impartiality of the audit process"

The fall back on the argument of lack of qualified individuals would probably correspond to BRC clauses regarding competency and training as well as establishment of a functional HACCP team

Edited by jdpaul, 27 June 2018 - 03:52 PM.

[Gerard H.]

Dear Sarah,

 

It seems that for this company, you have the role as the Quality Manager. So from this point of view, you may carry out the internal audits, except the one for the quality department.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gerard Heerkens

[SarahTQA]

Thank you all for your valuable inputs. You have helped me a lot!