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IFS V's BRC Audit


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#1 yorkshire

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 08:14 AM

Has anyone out there had an IFS audit?
How did the auditing technique differ to the BRC?


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#2 Charles Chew

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 04:30 PM

Gone through the "Knock Out" criteria and the certification scoring standards that you had given earlier which seems to suggest that they are not many out there who are going to get certified UNLESS they are really up to the mark.

It is sad because if this becomes a requirement for trade, the new kids will find it rather difficult to get a foundation to built a system on. Instead, its a creme de la creme syndrome.

The requirements are too stiff and I would be keen to find out more about the basis of their scoring procedures. I sincerely have my doubt about international adoption. I agree its a good idea to let the dust settle down some what.

Probably, not many would have the experience of having an audit under this system.

Charles Chew


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#3 Simon

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 09:46 PM

Probably, not many would have the experience of having an audit under this system.

I'm sure that there are Charles but unfortunately they probably don't stop by here too often.

Although it has 'International' in the title the standard was developed by the Germans to rival the BRC 'Global' Food Standard. It's mainly demanded by German and French retailers although as demonstrated by Yorky it is beginning to touch these shores.

Regards,
Simon
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#4 PSchnittger

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Posted 22 September 2004 - 09:16 PM

I'm afraid there will be no chance actually to get together and define one standard instead of two.

You will find out, that during the last moth more and more producers started to become certified by IFS, because of the requests from their customers. Now it starts to become a must also in Switzerland, Austria and some countries of eastern europe.

BTW, from the view of a German producer it is also absolutely unbelievably, that (if they are still IFS certified) they must also become BRC certified...


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#5 Simon

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:12 AM

I'm afraid there will be no chance actually to get together and define one standard instead of two.

Hi Peter, welcome to the forums. You're right of course. I'm afraid the outlook for European exporters is more duplication of time, energy and cost fulfilling requirements of localised standards that contain essentially globally agreed requirements.

You will find out, that during the last moth more and more producers started to become certified by IFS, because of the requests from their customers. Now it starts to become a must also in Switzerland, Austria and some countries of Eastern Europe.  BTW, from the view of a German producer it is also absolutely unbelievably, that (if they are still IFS certified) they must also become BRC certified...

So IFS is better than BRC eh? You want to take this outside? :lol2:

I'm only joking I don't like the BRC that much.

It's clear from your web site that you have a vested interest in the IFS Standard and you are bound to promote its positive aspects.

How about users of BRC and IFS which do you think is best (if any) and why?

I feel a poll coming on...

Regards,
Simon
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#6 flavour

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:47 AM

Hello together,

we have undegone a double certicifaction an I can´t see the big difference
between both Standards.
But we have never done an audit after a singel standard so I can´t say that without either BRC or IFS it would have been easier.
But from my point of view the ranking system of IFS is more transparent than the BRC.


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#7 Simon

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 01:38 PM

Hi Flavour,

I remember one of the other members saying they preferred the scoring system of IFS. Does having the two certificates make your product any safer though? I think not, maybe slightly more expensive but I doubt safer.

Seriously, why can't the bureaucrats sit down together, share a nice bottle of wine and agree a mutually acceptable name for THE European Food Safety Standard.

Global, International…what a load of twaddle!

Regards,
Simon


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#8 PSchnittger

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 09:02 PM

Hi Flavour,

during a combi audit you will have a mixture of both, so you will really not find out the diferences... and i thind you have had the same auditor. So at the end of the day you will propably have nearly the same report from bothe standards, right?

How ever. The reason for certifying both standards will always be the requirement from your customer.

And by the way. I was taking today to a meber of the BLL for ISO22000... so in future we will have to hold three differnt certifications + some national. I like my job as an consultant! :oops:

Simon you are not right, that I will promote IFS more the BRC, because I do my job with both (as well as ISO 9001:2000, EUREPGAP, BS 7799, BS15000) and in future with ISO 22000. Might be, I forgot something. And it's as I said before: It belongs to the need of my customers, and not to my personal view.

Cheers,

Peter

BTW: in the near future I will also promote a protal named www.iso22000.de :spoton:


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#9 Simon

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 09:31 PM

Simon you are not right, that I will promote IFS more the BRC, because I do my job with both (as well as ISO 9001:2000, EUREPGAP, BS 7799, BS15000) and in future with ISO 22000. Might be, I forgot something. And it's as I said before: It belongs to the need of my customers, and not to my personal view.

I concluded this from the link in your signature (IFS4.com, the IFS Portal). Apologies if I was presumptuous. :D

OK to give a balanced view how's the BRC Global Standard - Food doing throughout mainland Europe?

I wonder if there are any figures on the numbers of certificated companies for both standards. There will be, but I doubt we'll ever see them together.

Regards,
Simon
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#10 PSchnittger

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 08:40 PM

Good evening Simon.

As time goes by, I'd like to state something (because in real live I don't have to say anything :crybaby: )

You are absolutely right; there is nearly no one who wants to give you appropriate figures. How ever. For our next event I will ask the gent's again, if they want tell me something. Might be that I'm lucky again to get some figures.

How ever, I don't think it is really a kind of interest how may certificates each standard has. As long as discounters ask for a certificate the producer will have to fulfil it…

Cheers

Peter


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#11 Simon

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 06:47 AM

Hi Peter,

Thanks for getting back on this. I know numbers aren't important, I asked because you initially started off by being bullish about the IFS Standard. Like you say it's what the customer requires, but if I were an EU bigwig the customer would have only one choice ‘The European Food Safety Standard' which would be administered by the likes of BRC and IFS. Write to your MP now! :angry:

For interest I would like to see the figures, good luck!

If you want to add a link back to us from your site: ;) http://www.saferpak....forum/index.php

Regards,
Simon


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#12 yorkshire

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 09:14 AM

Simon,

I am told that the BRC has the largest number of certificates worldwide, however this is probably because the standard has been in place longer. Next time we have an audit I will ask the auditor if they have any figures.


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#13 PSchnittger

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 08:28 PM

If you want to add a link back to us from your site:  ;) http://www.saferpak....forum/index.php

Regards,
Simon


Hi Simon, this shouldn't be an issue, because our platform is open to everyone too (regardless if BRC, IFS, ISO22000 or TEFFS) :beer:
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#14 PSchnittger

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 08:39 PM

Done...

You will find the link here: http://www.ifs4.de/m...ieder/a_u_a.htm :king:


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#15 Simon

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 11:30 AM

Done...

You will find the link here: http://www.ifs4.de/m...ieder/a_u_a.htm  :king:

Thanks Peter, was it not possible to hide the link better? I have to log on to see it. :dunno:

Regards,
Simon
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#16 SAM

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 12:36 PM

We supply EU countries including Germany, France and Sweden, and the customers there accept our BRC certificate. The question of us going for IFS has never been raised.

Nadine


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#17 yorkshire

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 01:17 PM

Nadine,

I am told that Aldi Germany are now accepting only IFS suppliers (even for branded products). It is likely that the others are watching :ph34r:


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#18 PSchnittger

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 02:27 PM

Hi Simon,

no, it was not *s*. You know, we have that marcet place only in our Members area, to make sure, that only interestet folks will be able to see ...


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#19 PSchnittger

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 06:44 PM

Nadine,

I am told that Aldi Germany are now accepting only IFS suppliers (even for branded products). It is likely that the others are watching :ph34r:


Yorkshire, you are right... other discounters will follow.

Edited by PSchnittger, 06 February 2005 - 06:45 PM.

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#20 Franco

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 03:44 PM

How about users of BRC and IFS which do you think is best (if any) and why? 


Well, there's a research in my country. IFS and BRC results so close :uhm: maybe there's no preference at all. See details Comparison among QA schemes

Regards. Franco
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