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#26 Simon

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 07:04 AM

What had happen to this?  Surely you are not taking this Shxt lying down.

Lying down...now that would be nice. :blink:

No it does need to be concluded, I will follow up on it this week.

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Simon
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#27 Simon

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 08:50 AM

Dear All,

The complaint has progressed a little. :thumbup:

I now have the name of the technologist for soft drinks. :thumbup:

I'm hoping now that we may be able to get some constructive feedback. :dunno:

I'll let you know.

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#28 Simon

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:11 AM

The food technologist responsible for soft drinks contacted me and I have sent the carton back for analysis. I asked for a technical response from their investigations.

This has been going on for well over a month now and it will probably be another week or two before I get a response.

I'll keep you posted.

Regards,
Simon


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#29 Simon

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 09:41 AM

I received a standard letter and a £10 voucher yesterday. I'm hoping this is in addition to the technical response I requested.

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Simon


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#30 Charles Chew

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 01:36 PM

Simon,

Yes, I hope you can get to the bottom of the technical issues to find out how and why it happened.

Charles Chew


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#31 Simon

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 10:57 AM

Thanks for reminding me Charles, I sent this off today:

Dear ######
I am writing following up on the complaint I made regarding the orange juice carton. After I returned the carton to you on 07th June I received a standard complaint response and a voucher on 8th June. However, as I stated in the earlier email I am interested in receiving a detailed technical response to the complaint which includes details of how the fault occurred and the measures taken to prevent a reoccurrence.

I look forward to your reply.

Kind Regards,
Simon Timperley


See what happens... :helpplease:

Regards,
Simon


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#32 Simon

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 11:01 AM

By the way I requested a 'Read Receipt' and got:

Out of the office until Monday 28th June.

The saga continues...

Regards,
Simon


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#33 Simon

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 06:57 PM

I got a replying saying that they have only just received the carton, which they have now forwarded to the supplier. Apparently I shall receive a response shortly. Progress... :rolleyes:

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Simon


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#34 Charles Chew

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 05:52 AM

Must have been the persistent pressure that you have been giving them!
Good to know things are hopefully starting to move along.

:thumbup:

Charles Chew


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#35 Franco

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 06:17 AM

With legislation on traceability expected to come on stream by January 2005, there is indeed a presence of this dangerous deficiency in this area as you have highlighted.

Hi Saferpakers,

I would like to go into detail in EU Regulation 178/2002.

Will be coming into force starting from January 1st 2005.

Scope: food, feed and any substance which is to be incorporated into food. Packaging materials are not included so far.

Art. 18 states that a company shall:

1. be able to identify any person from whom they have been supplied with a food, a feed, a food-producing animal, or any substance intended to be, or expected to be, incorporated into a food or feed. Most companies are able;

2. have in place systems and procedures to identify the other businesses to which their products have been supplied. This information shall be made available to the competent authorities on demand. Most companies have;

3. food or feed which is placed on the market or is likely to be placed on the market in the Community shall be adequately labelled or identified to facilitate its traceability, through relevant documentation or information in accordance with the relevant requirements of more specific provisions. Most companies identify it.

No news from mandatory requirements :(
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#36 Simon

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 08:56 AM

Does the legislation cover speed of response? Sure you can have all the systems in place to trace, but if you operate at the pace of a snail or your staff wouldn't know a food safety crisis if it took them to dinner...then its all just paper.

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Simon


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#37 Franco

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:08 AM

Does the legislation cover speed of response?

...then its all just paper.

Actually EU 178 legislation does not cover response time.

The purpose is to avoid stopping a huge business for several months as it happened during Mad Cow disease emergency time.

The overall meat chain was stopped because of lack of traceability, basically because suppliers and customers were unknown :yeahrite: or were supposed to be unknown :angry:

It's only paper if you feel the Reg. 178 will be the panacea :(

It's a starting point if you think of it as a CI process :smarty:
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#38 Charles Chew

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 10:04 AM

Currently, the desirable response time to a "specific food safety problem" depends much on the negative impact the situation has on the "corporate and product image" of the organization/product concerned.

However, if the instruction comes from the authority as in a case of a necessary product recall where serious implications to adverse public health is certain, response time in this case is well dictated. But in the case of "Exhibit A" representing a mere customer complaint, it is all about social responsibility as well as the level of brand and corporate management that the respective organization desires to uphold.

With the EU's strong call on labeling regulations as well as traceability procedures coming on stream next year, I agree that it is only a matter of time that a format for "response time" will be seriously considered.

Regards
Charles Chew


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#39 Simon

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 06:13 PM

I got a replying saying that they have only just received the carton, which they have now forwarded to the supplier.  Apparently I shall receive a response shortly.  Progress...  :rolleyes:

That was the 29th of June so I thought I'd drop them another line to see how the complaint is hanging. :tired:

Regards,
Simon
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#40 Bonno

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 11:06 AM

Does the legislation cover speed of response?

I would be interested in knowing the packaging manufacturers point of view.
I work for a food packaging company (not for OJ) and we occasionally receive complaints from irate consumers that are tired of repeating themselves after being bounced from one department to another. Unfortunately we get involved quite late in many of these occasions as the store-groups appear to find it easier to offer vouchers to the consumer (who is usually happy with this) and then invoice their supplier for the value. The supplier does not want the hassle so pays the invoice without question!

Could it be possible that one of your members works in this type of packaging, perhaps the actual company (they may even be the person that has just recently had an old OJ box delivered in the post). I would find it interesting to see how long it takes for the packaging supplier to get involved in complaints of this nature.
Human error is always a factor when implementing any system and unless checked the person or persons that missed your box are very capable of repeating the mistake!? :uhm:


Finally, my concern would be for the security of the packaging - especially in the light of current threats. Packaging of this nature has security tabs in place so that consumers can be whether the packaging has been tampered with. A bit of a waste of time really with your box.
It is clear that your box has been punctured - what with - was it accidentally or deliberate??? :ph34r:

We have recently (at the demand of our customers) introduced additional safety equipment to reduce the risk of anyone gaining 'unlawful' access to certain areas of our plant. This 'demand' was instigated from a demand from their customer - the store-groups.
Why does everything seem to be left to someone else? The consumers want the storegroup to protect them, the storegroups want their suppliers to protect them and their suppliers pass this requirement on to theirs and theirs and theirs........and so on! Where does it end? My opinion is that only one of these organisations report 'disappointing' profits in the £billions and these are the stores themselves. They should plough some of this money into tighter controls - they should inspect items as they are added to shelves instead of leaving it to the general public to report problems? They should also practice what they preach - controls on blades, glass, personal hygiene etc. - not in evidence during a recent trip of mine to my local store - yet evident earlier in the day while at work????

:blahblah:
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#41 Simon

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 07:50 PM

Hi Alan,

I can't concentrate for that big bloody ball. :D

You talk a lot of sense though mate. I mean would the ridiculously inept handling of the OJ complaint be accepted anywhere else along the food supply chain? Somehow I doubt it. You are right, it seems the further back you are in the supply chain the quicker you have to pull your trousers up and down. As an aside I was in my local supermarket at the weekend and the lady working the cooked meats counter had terrible problems trying to reach and lift a giant ham from the front of the chiller. My god even Stretch Armstrong couldn't have reached it. OK we'll get our house in order Mr Retailer but you really need to do the same - but who's going to tell him? :dunno:

By the way I got an email today saying I would receive a reply to the OJ complaint shortly… :tired:

Oh and great first post Alan. :thumbup:

Regards,
Simon


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#42 Simon

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 11:07 AM

By the way I got an email today saying I would receive a reply to the OJ complaint shortly…  :tired:


You're not going to believe this I got the long awaited letter today a week after I received the above email. Wanna know what it said?

"Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

I am writing to let you know that we are currently looking into the issues you have raised in your letter. We will come back to you more fully as soon as possible.

In the meantime, thank you again for taking the time to get in touch."


Either I've been sent the wrong letter, or I presume the draft reply must still be at the committee / voting stage. :dunno:

Regards,
Simon
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#43 Charles Chew

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 03:23 PM

Simon,

I am not surprised by the attitude taken to delay forthwith a decent reply.

For your information, I too had made a customer complaint recently to a huge US Company known as KRXFT...........for a bottle of Mayonnaise that my wife bought that had dead ants in it and the product had already oxidised as well.

This was three weeks ago. First letter was sent to the local office and failing to get a reply at all, I emailed to USA..............and they replied within two days but expectedly passed the buck to another office.

I shall give them another week before I duly inform them that they have waived their rights by not resolving this issue and I shall instead post the complaint on this forum for our indulging "studies"..........Topic could be: "Social Responsibility by Big Corporations on Customer Complaint Management"

Well, Simon you seem to have better luck that I but we are both still not getting anywhere, are we? Maybe we should introduce them to buy the latest ISO Guidelines for Management of Customer Complaint. :P or better still, send an invitation to them to get on board SaferPak for an educational tour on this subject.

Charles Chew


Edited by charleschew, 30 July 2004 - 08:12 AM.

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#44 Simon

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 06:43 PM

Maybe we should introduce them to buy the latest ISO Guidelines for Management of Customer Complaint.  :P or better still, send an invitation to them to get on board SaferPak for an educational tour on this subject.


Hallelujah! Spread the word brother Charles. ;)

These cases highlight that we have a long way to go before we can have a decent level of confidence in the food supply chain. Remember these are very large organisations. I suppose it kind of underscores the need for places like this.

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Simon
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#45 Charles Chew

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 08:23 AM

Simon,

I would like to propose that we do a survey on the forum under the title of Customer Complaints.

Purpose:
1. To survey whether members would persue a customer complaint when foods become evidently unsafe for consumption.
2. To what extend would they pursue.
3. Would the complaint predominantly to seek product replacement or customer satisfaction?
4. Would the complainant remain brand loyal despite the incident?

Think this is a good idea to put such events on assessment? Will leave the rest of the objectives for you to define if you are keen.

Regards
Charles CHew


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#46 Simon

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 08:42 AM

Hi Charles,

It has the potential to make an interesting survey. I'll have a think over the weekend and put a draft together for review.

Thanks,
Simon


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#47 Simon

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 08:23 PM

Hooray! Reply received today! :band:

See what you think:

I am sorry to learn that you were unhappy with carton of orange that you bought from us. Thank you very much for contacting us.

We do set the very highest standards of quality for our own-brand products. We check constantly that we are meeting those standards, both by regular testing our goods and by discussing customers' comments with our suppliers.

On this occasion a production fault occurred when the cap was applied at the base of the carton, rather than at the top. Normally this would be picked out and rejected because it would result in the cap been faulty. Several tests have taken place to see if this process works and all have been successful. Therefore, I can only assume that this particular carton was a one off error. I have kept a record of your comments and passed them on to the buyer responsible for this range.

The enclosed voucher comes with our sincere thanks. By taking the time and trouble to contact us, you have given us the opportunity to make certain we are meeting our quality standards. I do hope you will find everything to your satisfaction on your next visit to.............


Well that's it - end of chat! At long last the case is closed. Satisfactorily? I don't think so. If this organisation were a supplier of my business I would have to seriously consider our relationship. However, they are not a supplier of my business, they are a major retailer at the very top of the food chain, and as such their complainants are individual consumers (like me) with very little influence.

Throughout this thread I have purposely not named the organisation and it hasn't been a witch hunt. What it has been (I hope) is a learning exercise. I notice from my web logs (web site statistics) there have been a lot of hits from the organisation involved and I genuinely hope this exercise has encouraged them to take a serious look at their complaints process.

To round this thread off what have been your main learning points?

Regards,
Simon


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Best Regards,

Simon Timperley
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#48 Franco

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 06:34 AM

To round this thread off what have been your main learning points?


Never give up Simon, never :clap: :beer:
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#49 Charles Chew

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 10:54 AM

Well done mate! Bet this was one of best forum topics we had for a while.

Any more complaints :thumbup:

Charles Chew


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Cheers,
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www.naturalmajor.com

#50 Simon

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 06:48 PM

Well done mate! Bet this was one of best forum topics we had for a while.
Any more complaints  :thumbup:
Charles Chew

There will be Charles, there will be...

Regards,
Simon
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Simon Timperley
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Need food safety advice?
Relax, you've come to the right place…

The IFSQN is a helpful network of volunteers providing answers and support. Check out the forums and get free advice from the experts on food safety management systems and a wide range of food safety topics.

 
We could make a huge list of rules, terms and conditions, but you probably wouldn’t read them.

All that we ask is that you observe the following:


1. No spam, profanity, pornography, trolling or personal attacks

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3. No (unpaid) advertising
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