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#1 jose22000

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 11:21 AM

We have one doubt realted with safety in packaging. In a company in which the main activity is packaging of oil there are one packaging line for tin without a system of blowing for granting the food safety.
What is the real risk in the tin line? Is there some important hazard for food safety?
What would be the better system for granting the food safety in that line?

Thanx a lot in advance!


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#2 MartLgn

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 04:50 PM

In a company in which the main activity is packaging of oil there are one packaging line for tin without a system of blowing for granting the food safety.
What is the real risk in the tin line? Is there some important hazard for food safety?
What would be the better system for granting the food safety in that line?


Jose.

There is a very real possibility of contamination being present in tins, particularly from small metal fragments or slivers, my first obvious question is have you carried out a Hazard analysis ? If so then what were the results? If not then I wouls suggest you conduct one, in the meantime It may help you to ask yourself a few questions about this process and the risks posed by the tins which you receive .....

1) When the empty tins are delivered is there ever any visible foreign body contamination ?
2) Do the filling line operators report any foreign body contamination during the process?
3) Do you ever receive any customer complaints about foreign body contamination of the oil ?

If the answer to any of the questions is 'yes' then you need to establish controls to elinminate the contamination. It would be ideal if the tins were delivered free from foreign bodies but in my experience it is almost impossible to do so as much of the foreign bodies are dislodged into the tin during storage and transportation. As you have identified the best way to remove foreign bodies from tins is to blow them out with compressed air, it is important that the tins are upside down when this is done so any large foreign bodies simply fall out and any smaller particles are not somply blown around the tin.
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Why put off until tomorrow that which you can avoid doing altogether ?

#3 yorkshire

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 08:08 AM

As you have identified the best way to remove foreign bodies from tins is to blow them out with compressed air, it is important that the tins are upside down when this is done so any large foreign bodies simply fall out and any smaller particles are not somply blown around the tin.


Even just inverting the tins prior to filling may reduce the risk of larger foreign bodies but I suspect that small piece of swarf, etc. may stick the sides. Inverting and blowing is the usual way of reducing risk in any preformed packaging container.

When you by the tins do they come in inverted? Keeping inverted during transport and storage is also a good way of stopping rogue pests entering the product.
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#4 Simon

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:02 PM

Even just inverting the tins prior to filling may reduce the risk of larger foreign bodies but I suspect that small piece of swarf, etc. may stick the sides. Inverting and blowing is the usual way of reducing risk in any preformed packaging container.

When you by the tins do they come in inverted? Keeping inverted during transport and storage is also a good way of stopping rogue pests entering the product.

Is it usual to rinse or wash out tins as a control like is done for bottles? I have no experience of tins.

Regards,
Simon
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#5 yorkshire

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 08:14 AM

Is it usual to rinse or wash out tins as a control like is done for bottles? I have no experience of tins.


I also have no experience of tins!

I have looked through BRC Guidelines Process Validation: Low Acid Canning and it mentions a can blower so I assume that blowing is the most common control.
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#6 MartLgn

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 08:35 AM

Is it usual to rinse or wash out tins as a control like is done for bottles? I have no experience of tins.

Regards,
Simon


I'll don my tin hat then :smarty:
Usual practice with tins and cardboard cans is to invert them and blow with compressed or ionised air before the filling line, the inversion allows any loose debris to simply fall out and the air blows any cutting dust, fibres and small pieces of debris out. We recomend to our customers that they have such a system in place before the filling line to remove any debris dislodged in transit.
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#7 yorkshire

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 10:55 AM

I'll don my tin hat then


:thumbup: :smarty: :king: :beer: :happydance:
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#8 Charles.C

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 06:41 PM

Interesting thread.

I also know nothing much about can making although this did not prevent me in the past (pre-HACCP) from inspecting many canned food production lines. I never saw any blowing step in these operations or even heard of such so I wonder if this is a relatively recent protective method or perhaps I was more easily deceived in those days (actually many lots were easily rejected due to visibly defective internal soldered seams or having inadequate overlap characteristics so that I didn't often have to resort to going into the finer details of the pre-process stages).

Regards / Charles.C


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#9 Simon

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 07:55 PM

I also know nothing much about can making although this did not prevent me in the past (pre-HACCP) from inspecting many canned food production lines.

#?@!! Auditors. :biggrin:

I never saw any blowing step in these operations or even heard of such so I wonder if this is a relatively recent protective method or perhaps I was more easily deceived in those days (actually many lots were easily rejected due to visibly defective internal soldered seams or having inadequate overlap characteristics so that I didn't often have to resort to going into the finer details of the pre-process stages).

It's come back to me; thanks Charles. I remember Charles Chew once mentioning the integrity of the seam being a critical 'food safety' aspect of tin cans. If he sees this thread maybe he can remind us all. :smile:

Anyway where are you jose22000, is this helpful at all?

Regards,
Simon
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#10 joan

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 09:32 PM

What about this method of inverting the tins and rinsing them with water, in addition to visual inspection ?


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#11 Simon

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:36 PM

What about this method of inverting the tins and rinsing them with water, in addition to visual inspection ?

That's what I said earlier. Nobody has confirmed or denied it yet. :yeahrite:
By the way congratulations on your first post Joan, :yay: let's hope it's the first of many.
Regards,
Simon
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#12 cazyncymru

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:01 PM

I have quite an extensive knoweldge of canning, having been the conformance manager at canning site. (maybe i need to post my CV on here!)

Cans are usually inverted, and blaster with compressed air.

This usually suffices ( can demonstrate with my customer complaint trends)

We never, ever rinsed cans out.

Caz x


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#13 cazyncymru

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:02 PM

#?@!! Auditors. :biggrin:

It's come back to me; thanks Charles. I remember Charles Chew once mentioning the integrity of the seam being a critical 'food safety' aspect of tin cans. If he sees this thread maybe he can remind us all. :smile:

Anyway where are you jose22000, is this helpful at all?

Regards,
Simon



Yes Simon, Charles is correct about the integrity of the seam being a critical "food safety" aspect.

C xx
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#14 wayne

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:11 PM

Dear All

Inverting tin cans and blowing them with filtered compressed air is a common practice for filling powder product (such as milk powder & etc). This step can be identified as a CCP for removing potential foreign bodies. Cleaning with water then follow by filling may create undesirable food hazards. Please comment, I may be wrong.

May I take this opportunity to wish you all a Very Merry Christmas, a Healthy & Prosperous 2007.

Kind Regards
Wayne


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#15 cazyncymru

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:21 PM

Yoohooo Wayne


I agree :thumbup:

Happy Crimbo to you too

Caz x :bye:


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#16 Charles.C

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 04:29 PM

Dear Wayne,

"I may be wrong" - useful phrase indeed, has been filed for future use.

Dear Cazy x

"conformance manager" - That's a new one, sounds like 1984!, presumably yr deputies were conformance inspectors?

Happy NY etc to all, especially those stuck in the jungle. :biggrin:

Rgds / Charles.C


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#17 joan

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 06:39 PM

Thank you Simon...

Dear Caz,

If tins are intended to be filled with beans and brine, where is the problem of inverting and rinsing them with water ?

regards


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#18 cazyncymru

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 11:01 AM

Joan

according to " The Guidelines for the Safe Production of Heat Preserved Foods" published by the Department of Health, and considered the bible for canning operations, section 8.5.3 states

" Containers conveyed to the filler should be inverted and cleaned immediately prior to filling with a suitable air or water jet cleaning device. Water cleaning should not be employed for:
a) containers used on aseptic filling lines, unless they are completely dried before sterilisation;
b) heat sealed containers, owing to the risk of seal area contamination.

so if your doing neither of these processes (lets assume your double seaming) and your water quality is ok then there is no reason why you can't wash out your cans

Caz


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#19 cazyncymru

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 11:02 AM

Dear Wayne,

"I may be wrong" - useful phrase indeed, has been filed for future use.

Dear Cazy x

"conformance manager" - That's a new one, sounds like 1984!, presumably yr deputies were conformance inspectors?

Happy NY etc to all, especially those stuck in the jungle. :biggrin:

Rgds / Charles.C



Deputies???? this is the dairy industry...we have no deputies!
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#20 Simon

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 08:24 PM

Joan

according to " The Guidelines for the Safe Production of Heat Preserved Foods" published by the Department of Health, and considered the bible for canning operations, section 8.5.3 states

" Containers conveyed to the filler should be inverted and cleaned immediately prior to filling with a suitable air or water jet cleaning device. Water cleaning should not be employed for:
a) containers used on aseptic filling lines, unless they are completely dried before sterilisation;
b) heat sealed containers, owing to the risk of seal area contamination.

so if your doing neither of these processes (lets assume your double seaming) and your water quality is ok then there is no reason why you can't wash out your cans

Caz

So as usual I was right. :smarty:

Thanks for the info Caz. And seeing how this thread has become the official seasons greetings zone, may I wish you all happy holidays and a fantastic New Year!

Regards
Simon :x_biggrin:

BTW Caz, although a photo would have been nicer I still dig your avatar.
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#21 YongYM

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 10:11 AM

Dear all:



I am one of the users for tin and may be I can highlight the problems we encountered before.



1) Presence of wooden splinters (our supplier uses the wooden pallets during delivery to our premise)

2) Presence of termite (due to the use of ‘rotten’ wooden pallet)

3) Presence of oily material (according to the supplier, it is the cooking oil they apply during the metal plate stacking to avoid static charge)

4) Presence of metal powder (we observed when we audit the supplier)



There are the problems that I can rerember.
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#22 Simon

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 09:38 PM

Dear all:



I am one of the users for tin and may be I can highlight the problems we encountered before.



1) Presence of wooden splinters (our supplier uses the wooden pallets during delivery to our premise)

2) Presence of termite (due to the use of ‘rotten’ wooden pallet)

3) Presence of oily material (according to the supplier, it is the cooking oil they apply during the metal plate stacking to avoid static charge)

4) Presence of metal powder (we observed when we audit the supplier)



There are the problems that I can rerember.

I think that's enough problems YongYM, thank you. :biggrin:
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#23 Charles.C

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:20 AM

Dear YongYM,

I hope these problems do not routinely occur simultaneously from the same (preferred?) supplier!

I am curious as to whether you include "reception of tin " as a CCP assuming that a HACCP plan is in use for the process?

Rgds / Charles.C


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#24 cazyncymru

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 09:19 PM

Dear YongYM,

I hope these problems do not routinely occur simultaneously from the same (preferred?) supplier!

I am curious as to whether you include "reception of tin " as a CCP assuming that a HACCP plan is in use for the process?

Rgds / Charles.C



As we've discussed previously in this thread, the cans should be tipped and blasted with air or rinsed prior to use. reception of tin would then only need to be a CP.

If we had had these problems from one supplier i think id be seriously looking at delisting them as a supplier!!!
GMP and a good prerequisite program should help eliminate at least some of these problems.

Caz

Edited by cazyncymru, 06 February 2007 - 09:22 PM.

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#25 Charles.C

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 10:26 PM

Dear Caz,

I take yr point but perhaps in this case the name of the supplier is also a significant hazard. :smile:

Rgds / Charles.C


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