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#1 Lion Maru

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 03:23 PM

§7.4.4 Identification and assessment of control measures

"Other control measures shall be implemented as operational PRP(s) according to clause 7.5."

PRP : Pre-requisite Programs or Post-requisite programs ??  :uhm:


Under the introduction to the standard "This International Standard integrates the principles of the Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point (HACCP) system and application steps developed by the Codex Alimentarius Commission and dynamically combines it with prerequisite programs (PRP(s))"

Post-requisite programs doesn't appear as a term in the DIS.
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#2 Charles Chew

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 04:03 PM

Hi MOEZ,

updated with ISO22K instead of ISO15161 (www.irca.org)

Yes, ISO 15161 for purposes of integration between HACCP & QMS ISO 9K will soon be redundant with the expected to-be STD ISO 22K. But then, ISO 15161 never really got off the starting grid.

PRP : Pre-requisite Programs or Post-requisite programs ??

Apart from differentiating between "Operational PRP" and "Infrastructure / Maintenance PRP", I like the way you look at POST Pre-Requisite Programs because it will certainly be part of the exercises of ensuring HACCP Plan / System revalidation and continual improvements.

Look forward to sharing further views on this expected standard.

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CharlesChew
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#3 jim

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 07:57 PM

Hi, I'm new :oops:

I think Charles Chew is right, HACCP is focused to food safety, and ISO 9001 is to customer satisfaction. HACCP need tools as we found in ISO 9001:2000 -chapter 4 (document control), and 8 (corrective and preventive actions). Don't forget that "corrective action" in HACCP are similar to the "non conformity product" in ISO 9000.

In the other hand, before applied Haccp, we must sure to compliance GMP and SSOP. This topic is very important too.

Anyone say if Danish Standard "DS 3027" was used as reference document ?

:uhm:

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Jim


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#4 Simon

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 08:57 PM

Anyone say if Danish Standard "DS 3027" was used as reference document ?

Hi Jim, welcome to the forums. :bye:

DS 3027 was used as a reference [6] in the Bibliography.

Regards,
Simon
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#5 MOEZ

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 11:10 AM

Hi,

Post requisite progams is a joke :lol:

I wanted to underline these Pre requisite programs replaced "SSM" (RiP) under the pressure of some "big" HACCP countries.

Despite this anachronism ( I named "post requisite" ), these countries obliged the working group to introduce the PRP's to put there inspection administration's mind at rest (French DGAL/DSV, USDA / FDA inspector, canadian CFIA inspector's...) .

When you practice HACCP certification (DS3027,CCvD,...) for years like we do, the PRP's ar only guidelines you confirm using hazard analysis which is tTHE way to find out control measures, THIS is the basic principle of HACCP.

Otherwise let them continue with pre estalished, preconceived hygiene systems... the inspectors JUDGES DREDD ( one man is judge, jury and executioner )

I'm sure HACCP teams and auditors will be smart enough to understand ....

to be continued....I'll be back


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#6 Charles Chew

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 01:56 PM

Post requisite progams is a joke  :lol:


Moez,
Need not necessary be a joke. I really like the idea but perhaps not quite in the context or terms as a Post RP. As you know, once a HACCP Program is in place, getting it sustainable is one thing, making sure it is current and the plan remains valid is another.

One way or another, perhaps without knowing, we are all using methodologies that are SIGNIFICANTLY post-prerequisite for obvious reasons. Therefore, I am not sure about your idea of a joke here becos A HACCP SYSTEM is indeed sufficiently dynamic enough to go beyond just a static set of prerequisite rules established for the purpose of meeting HACCP Principles in verification activities. By and large, it goes beyond all that.

Codex Recommendations and HACCP Principles are just guidelines to establish a HACCP Program.....but beyond that to remain static is to be static. Doesn't quite sound like continual improvement targeted or an indication of a desire to sustain commitment to make the program current.

Not a Joke!
Charles Chew
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#7 Charles Chew

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 08:29 AM

therwise let them continue with pre estalished, preconceived hygiene systems... the inspectors JUDGES DREDD ( one man is judge, jury and executioner )

Moez,
What really do you mean here? I am sure even Committee Members for DIS 22K implementation comprises of highly respected Academic and Commercial People. Standards like DS 3027 are created after much deliberations. Forums like this are also places where we discuss how to deal with them where and when ambiguity occurs albeit creating more confusion which really is quite unnecessary.

Respecting established standards and individual's opinion is how a forum like this become meaningful and beneficial.

Charles Chew
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#8 MOEZ

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 01:07 PM

Moez,
What really do you mean here? I am sure even Committee Members for DIS 22K implementation comprises of highly respected Academic and Commercial People. Standards like DS 3027 are created after much deliberations. Forums like this are also places where we discuss how to deal with them where and when ambiguity occurs albeit creating more confusion which really is quite unnecessary.

Respecting established standards and individual's opinion is how a forum like this become meaningful and beneficial.

Charles Chew


Charles,

I'm sorry but if you don't want to discuss this subject this forum can't give the necessary points of view to understand this new standard. If you followed how the standard was established , you know that the problem of prerequisite programs was really the point. that was not in DS3027 ( a standard I used and appreciate since 97) it was its weakness.

I don't know how many HACCP systems you have driven to certification but I'm very curious to know how you used the prp's ?

The SSM of the ISOCD22000 version was better I think

If you don't respect my opinion, this forum can't be "meaningful and beneficial".

enjoy your forum :beer:
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#9 Simon

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 08:00 PM

If you don't respect my opinion, this forum can't be "meaningful and beneficial".

I think you must have got the wrong end of the stick Moez. Let me say in these discussion forums ALL opinions are valued and respected, not least of which by Charles Chew who devotes a hell of a lot of time and energy to helping others - for free!

Moez we are VERY happy you have joined us on the forums and I know I speak for everyone when I say we ALL look forward to hearing lot's more of your informed and respected opinions. :)

OK so where were we: ISO 22000 PRP's.

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Simon
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#10 sharmasonu

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 06:20 AM

Hi everybody

I am a new member of your group as well as a new to this line .I am aFood Microbiologist & i intened to make my career in this line.I would be very thankful if someone could help me to understand the concept of ISO 22000 & how I can grow in this profession. :uhm:

Regards
Taruna


Anyone say if Danish Standard "DS 3027" was used as reference document ?

Hi Jim, welcome to the forums. :bye:

DS 3027 was used as a reference [6] in the Bibliography.

Regards,
Simon

:helpplease: :uhm:
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