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Methodology for oPRP and CCP determination


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#1 bennii

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 08:20 PM

:gitane:

Hello my fellow food safety people!

I wrote this procedure last week and thought since the oPRP and CCP is a thorn in all of our sides. This might help some people out.

It will also be great if you guys can crit it a bit, so maybe I can make it even better.

All the best with your projects etc

Bennii
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#2 Charles Chew

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 09:42 AM

Hi Benni,

I find your approach to performing risk assesment on potential hazards appears to be viable however can be more lean. I wonder how long it took you to complete your Hazard Analysis to derive to your HACCP Plan (albeit processes unknown). Often, concerns are already taken cared of by PRPs while the OPRPs are purely your verification data to assess process performances etc etc.

Congratulation on your understading of PRPs and OPRPs. It is correct.

Regards
Charles Chew


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Cheers,
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#3 Simon

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 09:36 PM

50+ downloads in one day and only one comment. :dunno: I think Bennii deserves better for the effort she has put in.


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#4 Charles.C

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 03:01 AM

Dear Simon / Bennii,

It's rare to hv such a detailed i22k item submitted. Takes a little time to digest. ;)

At the minimum, many thanks and congratulations to Bennii for offering yr procedure to be commented upon. Very brave ! :clap: :clap:

One really needs to see an example of the implementation to get more idea however can happily make a few comments. Anybody, please feel totally welcome to disagree with any of the following (particularly Bennii :biggrin: )

Comments

Some of these are (obviously) unrelated to content, only to presentation. Not trying to be nit-picking and I suspect many auditors would never hv the time to notice such things (or the interest).

One immediate comment. I don’t see the word “validation” anywhere in this document (perhaps Modarres/IFSQN is a minimum example :smile: ). Seems an important omission to me. (added1 - maybe also in ref.3.2 of procedure)

Perhaps need a bit more “Scope” – I guess the content is particularly aimed at iso22k. Nobody else uses oprp AFAIK (and I personally hope it stays that way until more articles appear to evaluate it like this one). Not sure if you intended this only to apply to the named process or to be generally usable.

Reference 3.3. I think this is not a reference.

Section 5.1. FQ10 seems to denote two different procedures.

4.1, 4.2. “Risk(hazard)” probably not a recommended naming style. See the notes in i22k section 3.3.

4.3 – “controls” is perhaps not the right word (activities??), not too sure about “generic” either.

4.4, 4.5 – Getting more to the crunch content. I interpret yr text to mean that you consider that i22k intends that none of the items in i22k section 7.2.3 are relevant to oprps ?? Do I understand correct ?? The following don't relate to yr specific process but as a random example, I noted that in this ref (cheese / heggum) –

Attached File  iso_22000_risk_matrix_haccp_cheese_as_per_i22k_.pdf   145.53KB   1026 downloads

Transportation is an oprp although it appears in i22k subsection 7.2.3 (f)

Similarly – (from surak) -
Attached File  iso_22000_i22k_surak_oprp_prp_fq_10012006_SS2.htm   50.34KB   775 downloads

• Operational prerequisite programs that are used to control potential food safety hazards. An operational PRP is similar to a control point or CP. An example of an operational PRP is the receiving temperature of raw meat at a poultry further processing plant.



Purchased materials management seems included in i22k / 7.2.3 (f) also.

6.1.1 et al - The use of a 5x5 matrix is no problem for me in principle but the amount of numbers which are subsequently involved surely demands some validation (eg, if I was a (nasty) auditor). Compare this to say an earlier upload here from Charlorne which maybe escapes such a situation (added2 - although in truth containing some (=?) debatable choices, eg only HH > CCP? etc + [added3] also note the subsequent interpretive objections of Modarres in the same thread, ie http://www.ifsqn.com...?showtopic=3183 ). -


Attached File  iso_22000_charlorne_Form_7_PRP_oPRP_CCP_worksheet_2.doc   40.5KB   765 downloads
Not saying 5x5 wrong, just maybe bit overkill. :smile:

6.2.1, 6.2.2 Seems the arrows (<, >) are all wrong way round ?? Maybe I misunderstood.
I personally don’t “buy” this method of equal weight evaluation as I noted in Modarres’s forum thread. Willing to be convinced though, and I predict auditors will hv no problem (as per CharlesChew ?)

Many of the conceptual queries above hv been discussed before with varying conclusions (or none) so can only thank you so much for the opportunity to let people comment further. :thumbup:

Regards / Charles.C
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Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 ana

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 11:49 AM

:gitane:

Hello my fellow food safety people!

I wrote this procedure last week and thought since the oPRP and CCP is a thorn in all of our sides. This might help some people out.

It will also be great if you guys can crit it a bit, so maybe I can make it even better.

All the best with your projects etc

Bennii


Dear benny,

very ellaborate procedure . I would like to draw your attention at 6.2.1 Methodology of assessment of contol measures, Fig. 1 Higher the rating of effectivenessi.e. > 14 should be managed by CCP and Lower the rating of effectivenes should be managed by oPRP. ISO/TS 22004:2005 (E) 7.4.4 also says that.
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#6 bennii

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 08:46 PM

Hi, ana

Thanks for that, in fact thank for everybody's feedback. I'm still digesting the results of Stage 1 assessment.

Ana, I know that but wanted to develop clear methodology on how to reach that. I implemented the system without consulting ISO 22004.

I get kick out of figuring(strange I know) things out for myself with research and talking to other experts. That way I understand it at depth, which makes giving in-house training on the subject much easier.

ISO 22000 is still brand new here in SA. Very very few people are involved with it, especially in my industry (wine).


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#7 ana

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 05:25 AM

Hi, ana

Thanks for that, in fact thank for everybody's feedback. I'm still digesting the results of Stage 1 assessment.

Ana, I know that but wanted to develop clear methodology on how to reach that. I implemented the system without consulting ISO 22004.

I get kick out of figuring(strange I know) things out for myself with research and talking to other experts. That way I understand it at depth, which makes giving in-house training on the subject much easier.

ISO 22000 is still brand new here in SA. Very very few people are involved with it, especially in my industry (wine).

Hi Bennii,

ISO 22004 is a Guidance on the application of ISO 22000:2005
If you wish i can mail it or upload here or you can get it from www.iso.org.

Warm regards
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#8 Simon

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:09 AM

Hi Bennii,

ISO 22004 is a Guidance on the application of ISO 22000:2005
If you wish i can mail it or upload here or you can get it from www.iso.org.

Warm regards

Hi Ana, please do not post it here as it is a copyrighted document and we could be introuble. What you do in your own time is up to you. :whistle:

Thanks,
simon
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#9 bennii

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 01:06 PM

Heheheh.. Simon.

That whistling emoticon carries over so much more tone. Dont it?

Thanks Ana. I have access to the standard, infact I am going standard shopping tomorrow at the SABS (South african Beaurau of Standards).

Incidently, I am attending a BRC version 5 workshop. Should be interesting.


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#10 Esther

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 07:27 PM

Dear Benni and Charles C.

Some time ago, when reading deeply and slowly the ISO 22000 I had the same trouble in finding out the difference between OPRP and CCP.

My conclusion, till my next training in ISO22000, was: for CCP you have to establish critical limits and corrective actions must be taken if critical limits are exceeded. For OPRP you have to establish monitoring procedures that demostrate that the OPRP is in place and the corrective action must be taken if monitoring shows that the OPRP is not in control.

And after saying the above, stated on the ISO 22000 as you read it , I would like to have and example of a CPP and a OPRP. Anyone?

I agree with Charles C., when saying:

"""Some of these are (obviously) unrelated to content, only to presentation. Not trying to be nit-picking and I suspect many auditors would never hv the time to notice such things (or the interest)."""


Best regards
Esther


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#11 Simon

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:45 AM

And after saying the above, stated on the ISO 22000 as you read it , I would like to have and example of a CPP and a OPRP. Anyone?


Can anyone provide Esther with examples?
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#12 bennii

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 10:22 PM

Hi, Esther

Its hard to give generic examples for CCP's and oPRp, as all processes and their hazards are unique. I attach the result of the assessment of the control measures that I determined for the bottling of wine. Hope to help to answer your question.

Bennii

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#13 Simon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:52 PM

Hi, Esther

Its hard to give generic examples for CCP's and oPRp, as all processes and their hazards are unique. I attach the result of the assessment of the control measures that I determined for the bottling of wine. Hope to help to answer your question.

Bennii

That's great Bennii, thanks for sharing. :thumbup:

Regards,
Simon
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#14 Jahanzeb

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:14 AM

Dear Benni,

Can you explain a bit more about the section 6.2.1-Assessment criteria.

My queries are as follows;

1. Is the rating going to be applied on the combination of control measures as whole or on the individual control measures in a combination selected for a food safety hazard? in my opinion it needs to be applied on each control measure of a combination i.e. like a comparative study.

2. The procedure shows that if the rating is below 14, the control will be through the HACCP plan. In my opinion it should be other way round i.e if the effectiveness of the control measure within a combination is high it is more likely to be included into HACCP plan.

You can also communicate with me on my e mail address: jakwiz@yahoo.com.

Regards.

Jahanzeb


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#15 Biss

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 11:34 AM

Hi,

I agree with Jahanzeb for the point no.2

Also I have a few querries on the hazard asessment of Benni

a) For the point no.2 hazard identified as ‘incorrect filtering’ but i think it is the source of hazard. Foreign material may be the hazard.

b) In the assessment criteria column, what is a,b,c denoting

please see the attachment of Hazard assessment & CCP determination form we are using

regards

Biss

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#16 Charles.C

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 12:13 PM

Dear Biss,

From memory of Bennii's earlier post and a bit of looking, (a) >>(g) should probably refer to ISO 22000, para 7.4.4 . There are some related comments following earlier post.

Many thks yr upload. haven't looked yet so no comments so far.

Rgds / Charles.C

added - also suggest you hv a look at Modarres's post(s) / discussion in this thread -

http://www.ifsqn.com...amp;#entry19699


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#17 Esther

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 09:45 AM

Hello Bennii

Thanks for your answers and sorry for my delayed thanks.

Maybe you has already notice that my doubt has been sorted out thanks to your help and other's members, if you look at the topic PRP/oPRP/CPP.

I am very sorry for been away from the forum for so longs periods of time, but, you now, a time problem.

Sincerely
Esther


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#18 firatozel

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 11:30 AM

thank you to everybody espacially bennii...documents you shared are very good for everybody like me.


Edited by firatozel, 18 July 2008 - 11:31 AM.

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#19 bencharef

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 09:47 PM

Hi sis,

I'm sorry but I think you've forgot to use the decision tree regardless of the rating of effectiveness.
The decision tree is the most used method to determine whether it is a CCP OR A OPRP.
The monitoring is the mean difference between a ccp and a oprp, the monitoring of a ccp is continous wheras the oprp can't be contrôled continously.


Edited by bencharef, 29 August 2008 - 09:53 PM.

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#20 bennii

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:03 PM

Hi, all

Thanks for the comments, its been a while since Ive visited. Its been a bit hectic.

Bencharef, regarding that decision tree, most Food safety standards have of late suggested a logic determination of CCP's and/ as in ISO 22000's case OPRP's, the use of a decision tree is no longer descriptive. The ISO 22000 decision tree is not even part of the standard, it is included in the guidance document ISO 22004, and many have professed that it was written too soon after the auditable standard came out.

Be that as it may I have stumbled on a better way to assess the control measures. Maybe this will be of help to someone as have many of the docs on here have been to me.

Cheerio
Bennii

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#21 AS NUR

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 01:49 AM

Thanks Bennii ..thats great doc.


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#22 Charles.C

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 03:37 AM

Dear Bennii,

Many thks as usual, but is there any connected, suggested value for the subjective "capital Sigma" somewhere in yr source document ? Perhaps I missed it, again as usual ?

Rgds / Charles.C


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#23 Suzuki

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 03:19 AM

Dear Bennii,
I find your new found methodology for selection and assessment of control measures (OPRP or HACCP Plans) rather inadequate when the current Codex decision tree appears to be more effective than as suggested. The ISO 22K Standard officially integrates the principles of HACCP developed by Codex (see introduction of the standard)

However, I must confess that the Codex decision tree is not the best approach and agree with you that current trend appears to move away from this approach and IMO has moved towards a risk assessment / justification model which has been highlighted by other forum members on numerous occasions.

Besides your HACCP Plan, do you have an OPRP Plan to to meet the requirements of 7.4.4?


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#24 shakti

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 07:35 AM

hi bennii
appreciate having posted such a procedure.

Your rating of 1 - Low, 2 - Medium, 3 - High as per 6.2 Methodology of Assessment of Control Measures in the procedure may be confusing during assessment. just to make the rating more clear, i ve added this table..it may be useful for friends using this forum. :rolleyes:

cheers
shakti

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#25 Colin Joy

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 02:02 PM

Benni thanks so much for your input - I have done a training session in Russian adapting some of your material! The only problem is the questions one asks to the control measures. Could you throw some light on questions c) - g)...the effectiveness rate 1-3 how do they relate for these questions??

Colleen


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