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#1 Cătălina Boiţeanu

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 08:01 AM

Hi!,
we are a processing fish roe (small) factory and we are searching for new ways of packaging caviar and other fish roe (these are fragile and we are using a method similar to the home-made canning). Can anybody help? :unsure:


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#2 okido

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 03:47 PM

Hi Cătălina,

Are you thinking in jars, tins, plastic?
I have a contact in Romania who is in producing packaging materials, ingredients and more.
He is always on the look out for new challenging opportunities.
Drop me a letter trough the mail and I will forward it, will take some days because I am on a business trip.

Have a nice day, Okido


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#3 cazyncymru

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 09:21 PM

Hi!,
we are a processing fish roe (small) factory and we are searching for new ways of packaging caviar and other fish roe (these are fragile and we are using a method similar to the home-made canning). Can anybody help? :unsure:



Are you using a retort? (excuse my ignorance in fish canning)

You could look at the pouches that are popular with microwave rice and pasta, or again jars.
i think to help we need to understand your process a bit more.


c x
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#4 Cătălina Boiţeanu

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 05:47 AM

Hi Cătălina,

Are you thinking in jars, tins, plastic?
I have a contact in Romania who is in producing packaging materials, ingredients and more.
He is always on the look out for new challenging opportunities.
Drop me a letter trough the mail and I will forward it, will take some days because I am on a business trip.

Have a nice day, Okido


Hi, Okido
It will take several days for me to compose the letter too. Anyway, we are using glass jars only.
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#5 Cătălina Boiţeanu

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 06:37 AM

Are you using a retort? (excuse my ignorance in fish canning)

You could look at the pouches that are popular with microwave rice and pasta, or again jars.
i think to help we need to understand your process a bit more.


c x


I think you could call it a retort, in extenso, but it is a simple glass jar. The lid applies manually with a press. After that the jar is heated at 61 or 64 degrees Celsius for a low pasteurisation (45-60 minutes) and chilled until 0-4 degrees Celsius (30 minutes).
Roe is fragile so we think the glass protects more than plastic.
We found out recently that there is no study made to determine the suitability of microwave to pasteurize fish roe.
Hope you give me some ideas of packaging! Our press system is rather rudimentary but also an automatic line probably would damage the roe.
Thanks!
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#6 cazyncymru

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 01:47 PM

I think you could call it a retort, in extenso, but it is a simple glass jar. The lid applies manually with a press. After that the jar is heated at 61 or 64 degrees Celsius for a low pasteurisation (45-60 minutes) and chilled until 0-4 degrees Celsius (30 minutes).
Roe is fragile so we think the glass protects more than plastic.
We found out recently that there is no study made to determine the suitability of microwave to pasteurize fish roe.
Hope you give me some ideas of packaging! Our press system is rather rudimentary but also an automatic line probably would damage the roe.
Thanks!



Have you thought about using something similar to a yoghurt pot which a heat sealed foil lid?

Cx
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#7 Cătălina Boiţeanu

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 07:24 AM

Our products have a long shelf life and they are quite expensive so we don't take the risk to eventually damage the foil lid during the process. If you pay attention to the process, the jars are heated (practically boiled) after the lid is applied.
Is the foil suitable for glass jars? If so, can it be heated together with full jars without coming off?
If you could tell me more, C X, I'll be gratefull.
:smile: Cătălina


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#8 Cătălina Boiţeanu

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 07:34 AM

Have you thought about using something similar to a yoghurt pot which a heat sealed foil lid?

Cx


Our products have a long shelf life and they are quite expensive so we don't take the risk to eventually damage the foil lid during the process. If you pay attention to the process, the jars are heated (practically boiled) after the lid is applied.
Is the foil suitable for glass jars? If so, can it be heated together with full jars without coming off?
If you could tell me more, C X, I'll be gratefull.
:smile: Cătălina
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#9 Simon

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:01 AM

Our products have a long shelf life and they are quite expensive so we don't take the risk to eventually damage the foil lid during the process. If you pay attention to the process, the jars are heated (practically boiled) after the lid is applied.
Is the foil suitable for glass jars? If so, can it be heated together with full jars without coming off?
If you could tell me more, C X, I'll be gratefull.
:smile: Cătălina

Glass and maybe tin are two of the most difficult container materials for heat-sealing to.

There are heat seal aluminium foil lidding materials that are specially developed for sealing to glass, but even so you cannot say for definite how well it will seal to your particular glass jar. It depends if the glass is coated or at microscopic levels whether it is absolutely smooth or a little rough. I actually know a company that had to rub the glass jar seal area with sandpaper to create a good seal of lid to jar, without the sanding the lids simply fell off.

Once you have a good seal then there is the issue of whether the sealed glass jar will withstand your heat process. They can do no problem, but to glass? Also is your product aggressive (say acidic) that would attack the heat seal lacquer or film? Another variable is the lids can be flat or recessed, so that is another choice to make? With anything like this a lid supplier will supply you sample lids based on their experience and knowledge of your product and process (it is a good idea for you to send them jars to test), but eventually it would be up to you to validate through production and shelf life trials.

I have some experience and contacts in this area, if you want to go down this route. If so send me a PM and I can give you a contact where you can send some sample jars and get sample lids.

One other thing to mention is that you would need to have heat seal machinery in place, but again I have contacts.

Regards,
Simon
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Simon Timperley
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