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Migrating to ISO 22000? Decision tree


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nef

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 02:42 AM

Hello everyone

I'm new in this forum. I have a question. If I have HACCP implemented and want to migrate to ISO 22000. Can I use the HACCP plan already implemented?.
I have to change the decision tree to identify a CCP.

I used the decision three proposed by the FDA and de CODEX.
Thanks for any help

NEF



Simon

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 07:34 AM

Hello everyone

I'm new in this forum. I have a question. If I have HACCP implemented and want to migrate to ISO 22000. Can I use the HACCP plan already implemented?.
I have to change the decision tree to identify a CCP.

I used the decision tree proposed by the FDA and de CODEX.
Thanks for any help

NEF

Hi Nef, Welcome to the forums. Apologies I did not see your question earlier.

:welcome:

Can any user of ISO 22000 provide guidance to Nef on migrating from HACCP to ISO 22000?

Regards,
Simon

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Mahmut Sogukpinar

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 11:59 AM

Hi Nef,

You dont have to change the decision tree, but you need to be careful about the control measure. As you know we normally control the food safety hazards either PRP(s) or HACCP plan (CCP), But with ISO22000 we have now OPRP(s). So when you go through the decision tree you have to think OPRPs as well, some of CCPs can be renamed as OPRP.

For ISO22000, You need review your hazard anaysis, haccp plan... because of OPRPs.

Best Regards,

Mahmut



Charles.C

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 01:41 PM

Dear Nef

This link gives some idea of the broad picture you will be facing.

http://www.redorbit....accp/index.html

If you already have ISO 9000 a lot of this will probably make immediate sense, otherwise some more work will be involved.
ISO 22000 has modified the HACCP situation as noted above so as to include oprps and prps (and some more). Do you have the standard already ? If yes, suggest you have a look at some of the threads in this forum which discuss these changes and also refer yr query regarding decision tree application in some detail. If no, I suggest you will first have to obtain a copy of ISO 22005 (and iso 22004) to understand the basic subject content.

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


nef

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 06:54 PM

Thanks a lot for your answers.
We already have ISO 9000 implemented and certifies as well as HACCP (implemented and certified). So we review all the requiremts, we consider de PRP and OPRP. The CCP did not change, all the CCP we had are devloped to eliminate the hazzards, so I cant changed. The only doubt I had was how to evaluate the sinegistic effect of some the control measures. But we did it. And all the CCP and OPRP were validated.
But we had a pre-audit, and the auditor tell us that in ISO 22000 the decision tree recomended by the CODEX can not be used any more and we got a non-conformity because of it. So I am looking for some support to be sure that we do not have that non-conformity.

Thanks again.

Neyda



Charles.C

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 01:04 PM

Dear Neyda,

Thks for yr clarification. I just added a post (see below) in another thread which may answer yr last query (yes/no depending on yr exact usage.) My answer may possibly not support yr position however further responses may yet prove you are correct (I hope so :smile: ).

http://www.ifsqn.com...m...ost&p=22418

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Erasmo

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 02:15 PM

But we had a pre-audit, and the auditor tell us that in ISO 22000 the decision tree recomended by the CODEX can not be used any more and we got a non-conformity because of it. So I am looking for some support to be sure that we do not have that non-conformity.

Thanks again.

Neyda


Hi Neyda,

An ISO-22000 auditor can not say that you can not use the Codex tree unless is strictly prohibited in the ISO-22000 requirements and that is not true. And if you have a NC because of that, I think you can appeal his/her decision.

There are three parts to a well-documented nonconformity:

· the audit evidence to support auditor findings;

· a record of the requirement against which the nonconformity is detected; (number of the requirement)

· the statement of nonconformity.



I don’t think the auditor can have the second bullet, and if she/he has it, what number was that?



The decision tree is only a GUIDELINE and can not be banned for other requirements, the ISO-22000 standard is a Management System developed with the Guide ISO 72, and one of the principles of a Management System is COMPATIBILITY – That means that the standard should be able to be used together without imposing conflicting requirements.



This is a part of the Codex:



“This example of a decision tree may not be applicable to all situations. Other approaches may be used.”



So, if the tree is a guideline, you can use it if you want.


Charles Chew

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 02:47 PM

Well, if you go to the introduction page of the ISO 22000:2005 Standard, it clearly says "This international standard integrates the principles of HACCP system and application steps developed by the Codex Alimentarius Commission."

Thats your reference! Hope this helps.


Cheers,
Charles Chew
www.naturalmajor.com

nef

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 10:39 PM

Thanks you all.

I will use all the information to clear the non conformity. It does not say exactly that the CODEX desicion tree can not be used, but that was his argument.
The non conformity was accepted, but i can have better elements to close it.

Thanks again.

Nef



Herman Storme

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 12:41 PM

Hi Nef, Welcome to the forums. Apologies I did not see your question earlier.

:welcome:

Can any user of ISO 22000 provide guidance to Nef on migrating from HACCP to ISO 22000?

Regards,
Simon


Dear Simon,

Actually I am busy implementing a ISO 22000 QMS in a factory and looking for some practical examples concerning PRP - OPRP - CCP - decision matrix - decision tree .
A lot of website links here in this discussion forum are giving an error message.
Can you give me some suggestions


Thanks


Herman Storme


Charles.C

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 02:27 PM

Dear Herman,

In the case of URLs this can sometimes be due to original link no longer existing.
However it is true that some of the posted links to uploaded files are broken due to a host server fault several months ago. Many of these hv been replaced by new links but I am sure many remain not working. If you continue to be unable to dwl such files, suggest you add a comment similar yr post in other thread so maybe someone can fix it.

Sorry for problems.

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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