Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo
- - - - -

22K explained to employees...good luck!


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

Penard

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 171 posts
  • 3 thanks
2
Neutral

  • France
    France
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France
  • Interests:Literature : novels, Sci-Fi, thrillers; Rowing; Personal and Professional travels

Posted 09 July 2008 - 11:23 AM

Dear all,

From time to time I have a talk with other quality managers who have to implement Haccp 22K. The first step involves the good-understanding of all possibilities given by oPRP and CCP for all Haccp team...it's not so easy!

Then once the Haccp study done, Quality managers have to explain new 'regulatory' points to employees : explaining you have to change some CCP which won't be CCP, not CP but oPRP to employees you repeat for years they must respect 'internal laws' will be very funny...First to change ways of working, second to succeed in explaining the main points of the new Haccp.

Any feedback of implementation from one quality system to another one?

Regards,

Emmanuel.



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,528 posts
  • 1318 thanks
717
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 10 July 2008 - 08:53 PM

Dear all,

From time to time I have a talk with other quality managers who have to implement Haccp 22K. The first step involves the good-understanding of all possibilities given by oPRP and CCP for all Haccp team...it's not so easy!

Then once the Haccp study done, Quality managers have to explain new 'regulatory' points to employees : explaining you have to change some CCP which won't be CCP, not CP but oPRP to employees you repeat for years they must respect 'internal laws' will be very funny...First to change ways of working, second to succeed in explaining the main points of the new Haccp.

Any feedback of implementation from one quality system to another one?

Regards,

Emmanuel.

Most people on here don't understand it (I certainly don't), so what chance have the employees got. :rolleyes:

By the way Penard congratulations on your 100th post. :clap:

Regards,
Simon

hand-pointing-down.gif
 
Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 140 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html

 

recommend-us-on-facebook.png


a_andhika

    Generally Recognized As Sane

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 338 posts
  • 7 thanks
3
Neutral

  • Indonesia
    Indonesia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Island of JaVa
  • Interests:Manga, Comics, Anime, Epic & High-tech Movies, Video Games, and CSI stuffs

Posted 15 July 2008 - 11:14 AM

Dear Simon,

Haha.. It surely does tickle me.. Even I who haughty being a member of ISO 22k Team in my company dont sure about my comprehension on ISO 22k, then how come I can explain to the employee (who even dont know what ISO 22k stands for) with well? But how so ever... I cant leave it easily that way... Well at least I can explain better about the HACCP, which I think much more "simple" and "understood-able" for common people.

Cheer up... I am sure that even an expert would have a different thought with other expert. So, what do we afraid of? God wont punish us if we taught a different definition about oPRP, PRP and HACCP Plan...:) But I am sure God will punish us if our customer getting sick just because we neglect the importance of socializing the system to the employee.


Regards,


Arya


IF
safety and quality means perfection
AND
nobody's perfect
THEN
why should I bother?

Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,528 posts
  • 1318 thanks
717
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 15 July 2008 - 11:28 AM

Haha.. It surely does tickle me.. Even I who haughty being a member of ISO 22k Team in my company dont sure about my comprehension on ISO 22k, then how come I can explain to the employee (who even dont know what ISO 22k stands for) with well? But how so ever... I cant leave it easily that way... Well at least I can explain better about the HACCP, which I think much more "simple" and "understood-able" for common people.

We call it the blind leading the blind in these parts Arya. :smile:

Regards,
Simon

hand-pointing-down.gif
 
Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 140 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html

 

recommend-us-on-facebook.png


APPAJI

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 32 posts
  • 2 thanks
0
Neutral

  • India
    India
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Delhi

Posted 15 July 2008 - 12:09 PM

Dear All,
I too agree it is difficult in explaining the differancxe between PRP and OPRP and HACCP PLAN and OPRP Controls as required in ISO22000. But always remember we will be punished if the food is not safe and will not be punished if we are not able identify PRP or OPRP or CCP properly. So do not worry as long every one takes care of the FOOD SAFETY issue, rest all is only documentation for Certification only. So consentrate on the real issues and have control on the SAFETY.
Appaji



AS NUR

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 582 posts
  • 58 thanks
9
Neutral

  • Indonesia
    Indonesia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:east java, indonesia

Posted 16 July 2008 - 04:17 AM

:secret:

For me the most important is how to make sure all of the people have some rules and objective.. there is make the product save, good quality and on time....

the method for common employe is using a picture thats describe what should they to do.. and the other method is make "Hygiene Book" for all of employees


a_andhika

    Generally Recognized As Sane

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 338 posts
  • 7 thanks
3
Neutral

  • Indonesia
    Indonesia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Island of JaVa
  • Interests:Manga, Comics, Anime, Epic & High-tech Movies, Video Games, and CSI stuffs

Posted 16 July 2008 - 05:17 AM

We call it the blind leading the blind in these parts Arya. :smile: Regards, Simon


Dear Simon,

Well.. What can I say... Love just can be so Blind..:)

Regards,


Arya

IF
safety and quality means perfection
AND
nobody's perfect
THEN
why should I bother?

Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,528 posts
  • 1318 thanks
717
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 17 July 2008 - 08:29 PM

the method for common employe is using a picture thats describe what should they to do.. and the other method is make "Hygiene Book" for all of employees

Another saying we have in these parts is - a picture paints a thousand words

I'm a great believer in visual instructions.

Which is most effective?

This

Posted Image

or this

Posted Image

hand-pointing-down.gif
 
Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 140 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html

 

recommend-us-on-facebook.png


Penard

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 171 posts
  • 3 thanks
2
Neutral

  • France
    France
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France
  • Interests:Literature : novels, Sci-Fi, thrillers; Rowing; Personal and Professional travels

Posted 19 July 2008 - 09:01 AM

Hi all,


Thanks for your replies. If definitions of oPRP (overall this point), PRP, CCP are different from one training session/leader to another one, it's difficult to keep the control on employees understanding.

After reading your posts the question is 'do we have really to explain precise operational points to employees or do we just have to explain correlation between 22K, certification and food safety without giving all confusing information'?

As some of you wrote, the ultimate goal still remains food safety, unnecessary to explain all books as shown with Simon's picture...

Regards,

Emmanuel.



Jean

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 429 posts
  • 7 thanks
4
Neutral

  • India
    India
  • Gender:Female

Posted 19 July 2008 - 09:25 AM

A good illustration from Simon and as others mentioned better to keep it simple with more focus on food safety measures.


Best regards,

J

Only the curious will learn and only the resolute overcome the obstacles to learning. The quest quotient has always excited me more than the intelligence quotient. Eugene S Wilson

althene

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 34 posts
  • 5 thanks
1
Neutral

  • Philippines
    Philippines
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:philippines

Posted 24 July 2008 - 10:28 AM

I agree with Simon...better keep it simple.. minimize the technical terms, and make it more of what actually happens at your current set-up.

Compare it with what you are actually doing...as for me here, we took some pictures of the plant and let them try auditing it as a pre-test to see and gauge their level of awareness with regards to food safety.

good luck!



a_andhika

    Generally Recognized As Sane

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 338 posts
  • 7 thanks
3
Neutral

  • Indonesia
    Indonesia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Island of JaVa
  • Interests:Manga, Comics, Anime, Epic & High-tech Movies, Video Games, and CSI stuffs

Posted 25 July 2008 - 11:22 AM

Dear Forum,

Yups, on a presentation, pictures are proved much more attractive than words. But the problem is.. This is ISO 22k that we are talkin about. And not every kind of aspect of ISO 22k is easily transfered by using pictures.. But if it does, please send me the files, I need it...

Recently I've trained employees about HACCP and ISO 22k. At the first session, which is a quick overview about HACCP and ISO 22k, I can see emptiness in their soul... When I ask them to throw queries, they just kept silent... I assume they didnt get my presentation very well (my bad)... But after enter the 2nd session, which is the practise of HACCP and ISO 22k on their field, suddenly they became enthusiastic by givin so much questions. They wondering which is part of their process that considered as PRP, oPRP, or CCP. And they just kept askin and askin. So IMO (Read:IMEX), the best way to explain a system is by fuse it on their jobs/field.

I think it doesnt matter if the employee didnt fully understand about the concept of oPRP and CCP, but it does matter for them to know if there some specific control measures needed on their areas, to ensure the food safety.

Regards,


Arya


IF
safety and quality means perfection
AND
nobody's perfect
THEN
why should I bother?

Penard

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 171 posts
  • 3 thanks
2
Neutral

  • France
    France
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France
  • Interests:Literature : novels, Sci-Fi, thrillers; Rowing; Personal and Professional travels

Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:16 AM

Yes andhika, the link between daily ways of working and implementation of required actions is the sine qua none condition to a good understanding...during a training session we don't have to fight against words, we just have to apply rules involved by 22K.

Thank you all for your replies; even though I'm not in charge of quality in a factory anymore - and I don't have to implement any training sessions, always interesting to talk about concrete actions on the ground,

Regards,

Emmanuel.



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,528 posts
  • 1318 thanks
717
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 11 August 2008 - 10:02 AM

I agree with Simon...better keep it simple.. minimize the technical terms, and make it more of what actually happens at your current set-up.

Compare it with what you are actually doing...as for me here, we took some pictures of the plant and let them try auditing it as a pre-test to see and gauge their level of awareness with regards to food safety.

good luck!

Just to mention on this that people prefer to learn in different ways, some get it through theory, some people need more of a ‘hands on’ approach, so knowing your audiences preferred learning style (individually if possible) is critical for the training to be the most effective. If it is not possible to know this at least the training should be a combination of practical and theory, visual and words and any end test should be the same. I’m not an expert but that’s my experience.

Regards,
Simon

hand-pointing-down.gif
 
Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 140 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html

 

recommend-us-on-facebook.png


QA trainee

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 14 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • South Africa
    South Africa
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South africa

Posted 01 December 2008 - 11:44 AM

I love your idea on using images to do training and i am also a firm believer in that principle. On attending a presentation skills course the facilitator showed us some information from a study that proved that pictures in conjunction with text have the greatest rentention time in ones memory after the training was complete.

I wanted to ask where i could get a hold of that lovely poster you showed in the above post on what is wrong with the factory environment?? i searched saferpak site but didnt come across it.

Thank you for all the help

Regards

QA trainee






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users