Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo
- - - - -

ISO 22000 Query for Aluminium Can Manufacture


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

lamphuong

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vietnam

Posted 14 August 2008 - 08:00 AM

I'm Lamphuong. My company is Two piece Aluminum can making provess that mean food pakaging industries. I wonder whether ISO 22K not so strictly on control the Pre-requisite programs ???



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,528 posts
  • 1318 thanks
717
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 14 August 2008 - 08:53 PM

I'm Lamphuong. My company is Two piece Aluminum can making provess that mean food pakaging industries. I wonder whether ISO 22K not so strictly on control the Pre-requisite programs ???

Hi Lamphuong, can you please clarify your question please.

Regards,
Simon

hand-pointing-down.gif
 
Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 140 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html

 

recommend-us-on-facebook.png


lamphuong

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vietnam

Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:15 AM

:unsure: Oh ! I'm so sorry ! Please forgive my confusion. :doh:
I'm very glad to receive your respond because I just join this forum as the new member.
My company is on the way to set up the ISO 9000 & ISO 22000. I 'm in charge as the Quality coordinator and I find out a lot of things & difficulties & confusion during preparing documentation & implementing. There are several questions I need your kindly help.
Regarding to the pest control about preventing access: we should install the plastic curtain at the open door and the door should be closed immediately after use. We have already installed for most of doors except the warehouse (WH) door with the reason for delivery activities. WH door just be closed at night and even we also loading at night up to 8:00 pm but it is the big door, so insect might fly into the factory a lot. Please advice me whether we need to install the yellow curtain and how to persuade my management (They always want to reduce cost). I have suggested but it is denied and they ask me to propose the better way. Also, we are producing the food packaging material (can maker) and whether we not have to control strictly as requirement for food processing as ISO 22000 requirement? whether we be allowed to exclude some requirements ? In addition, to prevent insect drop into the can during process, we have installed the covers on conveyors. Whether when the can product is protected from insect drop in, we don't might about insect come into the factory ? I routine check the cover weekly and find out the insect dead drop on the covers, I just make sure that the covers are not taken out.
Regarding to pest control verification, I analyse based on collection of insect dead in the insect killers we install in the factory. Please advice me whether this is correct or not and should be ? I enclose with my recent report for insect verification.
Please help me ! :helpplease:
Thank you and kind regards
Ngoc Phuong

Attached Files



Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,528 posts
  • 1318 thanks
717
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 15 August 2008 - 08:51 AM

Regarding to the pest control about preventing access: we should install the plastic curtain at the open door and the door should be closed immediately after use.

Yes doors must be closed when not in use. Is your problem more that the warehouse employees like to keep the doors open all the time for convenience? If so it is a management issue and the strict implementation of this rule would certainly help with your problem.

Plastic strip curtains make access in and out a little more difficult, but you get used to it after a while. I’m sure if you employ this system it would further reduce insects coming into your factory.

A better alternative is self-opening / closing doors. These are more expensive, but are much more effective as door opening and closing is taken out of the employee’s hands. And the doors are only open when and for as long as is necessary. I understand this may not be possible due to cost. Auto doors with strip curtains would be even better.

How are your electric fly killers positioned? Do not let them be visible to the outside as they encourage insects into the factory.

You say you have installed strip curtains on most other doors, I’m guessing these doors do not open as much as the warehouse, so based on risk what is the logic?

Your pest control report indicates a huge amount of insect activity and if I were your customer I would be very concerned, especially as insects can be seen in large numbers on the floor and in product (photos). Covers over the lines will reduce product contamination, but it’s not getting to the root cause and therefore can only be effective to a certain level. Pest prevention is the key.

One other question do you or can you invert the cans before finished packing? This could be a final control measure.

I hope this helps; you appear to have a serious issue. And I think you need to address this for customer satisfaction and also I imagine to achieve your goal of ISO 22000 certification.

Has anybody else got a comment on this?

Regards,
Simon

hand-pointing-down.gif
 
Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 140 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html

 

recommend-us-on-facebook.png


Thanked by 1 Member:

lamphuong

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vietnam

Posted 18 August 2008 - 03:16 AM

:smile: Dear Mr. Simon ,

Thank you very much for your reply. It is very helpful to me.

I make the insect verification report by collect the insect dead body is it quite reasonable or not, or there is other better way. Please help me. :helpplease:

The finished can do not invert before packaging. But, it will be invert at the customer line and washing (dust,...) before filling.

One more question please :unsure: As ISO 22000 requirement, do we need to make the validation report for product shelf life ?

We guarantee the can shelf life is 6 months (in dry, clean condition, keep away from direct light and sunshine) but not make the validation report yet.

Do you have example report for product shelf life validation ?

The Aluminum can is coated inside by lacquer layer. Lacquer layer is the quality item that we much more concern about. We test the Metal exposure (1) to ensure the lacquer coverage, test the adhesion of lacquer to the aluminum layer (2).

We have kept the sample over 6 months and we conduct the above two tests before destroy it (finish sample retention time).

We have the analytical report from lacquer supplier to guarantee about migration of can body (validaty: 2007 - 2010).

Do we also need to conduct the migration test for validate the can shelf life ? :unsure:

Please help me ! :helpplease:

Thank you very much for you consideration and kindly help.

Lamphuong


Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,528 posts
  • 1318 thanks
717
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 18 August 2008 - 07:59 PM

I make the insect verification report by collect the insect dead body is it quite reasonable or not, or there is other better way. Please help me. :helpplease:

Yes count the flies and graph them. Over time you can see trends on type, time of year and location. Data gives you information to act on and may help you convince others partiularly where additional resource is required.

One more question please :unsure: As ISO 22000 requirement, do we need to make the validation report for product shelf life?

We guarantee the can shelf life is 6 months (in dry, clean condition, keep away from direct light and sunshine) but not make the validation report yet.

Do you have example report for product shelf life validation ?

The Aluminum can is coated inside by lacquer layer. Lacquer layer is the quality item that we much more concern about. We test the Metal exposure (1) to ensure the lacquer coverage, test the adhesion of lacquer to the aluminum layer (2).

We have kept the sample over 6 months and we conduct the above two tests before destroy it (finish sample retention time).

We have the analytical report from lacquer supplier to guarantee about migration of can body (validaty: 2007 - 2010).

Do we also need to conduct the migration test for validate the can shelf life ? :unsure:

Please help me ! :helpplease:

Thank you very much for you consideration and kindly help.

Lamphuong

Can anybody help Lamphuong on the requirements for shelf-life validation under ISO 22000?

hand-pointing-down.gif
 
Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 140 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html

 

recommend-us-on-facebook.png


MrTraceability

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 9 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:04 PM

Hi Lamphuong,

Some suggestions to share with you regarding your issue. I have read closelly youu concern and we all know it's not easy. But you have to be strict with your management and remain them the Management commitment and support for Food Safety.

For your pest activities, you have to have a procedure in place in place which explain the procedure, responsability and frequency fo monitoring this. Make sure you have all traps are indoors. Baii station are located outside the plant.
You will also need a bird contro. and Insect O cutter and also a Glue Board (for the locker room) .
Remember that every 2 weeks, you procedure should specify that a QA oe alternate person will monitor all rodent trap according to your diagram and record any finding on Pest control Log Form.

Replace rodent trap if damaged or unacceptable.

Good Luck.

Mr Traceability



AS NUR

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 582 posts
  • 58 thanks
9
Neutral

  • Indonesia
    Indonesia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:east java, indonesia

Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:49 AM

dear lamphoung...

IMEX... last audit for certifation ISO 22000, the auditor ask me to show the trial result of shelf life... because we state the our product have shelflife ± 1 Years...

And we did trial using Accelerated Shelf life method, We put product on different humidity and same temperature.. and we study increasing of moisture content during trial (± 3 Month) .. after that we calculate the shelflife using arhhenius equation...



lamphuong

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vietnam

Posted 20 August 2008 - 07:58 AM

Dear Mr. Traceability,

Thank you for your suggestion.
We have hired the pest control service to provide the service , they come to our factory every two weeks (for 2 days/time): spray chemical, place trap/bait/glue board on the 1st day and collect the trap/bait/glue board on the 2nd day to see if any rat or not then they give the service report including the trap schematic.

Do we need to place always the trap/bait/glue board ? :unsure: So we need one more person to in charge on checking & monitoring the trap every day.

Currently, our QA staff monitor and check to see if any pest in the factory once/week.

Dear As Nur,

Thank you for your reply. That mean we need to do trial test for product shelf life validation.
Sorry , I don't know much about Accelerated shelf life method as well as the arhhenius equation. Could you teach me please ?
In addition, we have kept the sample can product for over shelf life period (in normal condition). May we apply directly on the trial sample can all the tests we concern about quality requirement and if the results are within standard, we can conclude that the Quality of can is OK and may I call that the validation report ? :unsure:

Thank you for your help

Regards,

Lamphuong



Charles Chew

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,178 posts
  • 52 thanks
8
Neutral

  • Malaysia
    Malaysia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia
  • Interests:Food, food and food!

Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:04 AM

The Aluminum can is coated inside by lacquer layer. Lacquer layer is the quality item that we much more concern about.

The lacquer layer is actually your primary food contact material - agree!

We test the Metal exposure (1) to ensure the lacquer coverage, test the adhesion of lacquer to the aluminum layer

Sounds like a potential shelf life validation to me on the lacquer layer. What were / are the test parameters!

Cheers,
Charles Chew
www.naturalmajor.com

AS NUR

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 582 posts
  • 58 thanks
9
Neutral

  • Indonesia
    Indonesia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:east java, indonesia

Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:10 AM

Dear Mr. Traceability,

Dear As Nur,

Thank you for your reply. That mean we need to do trial test for product shelf life validation.
Sorry , I don't know much about Accelerated shelf life method as well as the arhhenius equation. Could you teach me please ?
In addition, we have kept the sample can product for over shelf life period (in normal condition). May we apply directly on the trial sample can all the tests we concern about quality requirement and if the results are within standard, we can conclude that the Quality of can is OK and may I call that the validation report ? :unsure:

Thank you for your help

Regards,

Lamphuong


Dear Lamphuong....

I think your report of migration test after 6 month storage is validation report for your product shelflife.. you just show the report to auditor to prove that no migration of liquer...

and to make sure there's no migration of liquer to product, first you have to know what food product that use your can.. and after that you can trial with the food product inside the can...

For trial you can keep the can plus product for 6 month ( your product shelf life) and after that your analysis for migration of liquer... or you can use accelarated shelflife test...

Accelarated shelf life test is a method with some condition to accelarate destruction of product, ussually using diferent temperature, so we can know the shelflife product faster (only several week compare the actual ± 6 month).. and for arhennius equation is formula to count your product shelflife after you collect the data...

May be you can search literature about that using GOOGLE....

hope make you clear :thumbup:


lamphuong

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vietnam

Posted 22 August 2008 - 09:34 AM

Dear Charles Chew & As Nur

Our product is aluminum can (which coated by modified epoxy inside and decorated outside) using for contain beer & beverage.
We test Metal exposure using the Enamel Rater measures the inner enamel coating on can. Way of measurement: the electrical cuurent serves to indicate the porisity of the enamel layer, which should contact the metal and the contents of the can (the can is filled electrolyte solution place on the Enamel Rate table with the electrode put in).
Adhesion test: cross cut the can then stick the cross cut area by 3M Scotch tape and split the tape quickly to see any peel off or not.

We intend to make the shelf life test for empty can not the can fill in the product inside.

The lacquer supplier had send the report of migration test to us to guarantee about overall migration of can body (test condition based con the food cotact to select the food simulant: acetic acid & ethanol)

Regards,

Lamphuong



Charles Chew

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,178 posts
  • 52 thanks
8
Neutral

  • Malaysia
    Malaysia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia
  • Interests:Food, food and food!

Posted 22 August 2008 - 05:18 PM

indicate the porisity of the enamel layer, which should contact the metal and the contents of the can (the can is filled electrolyte solution place on the Enamel Rate table with the electrode put in)


The lacquer supplier had send the report of migration test to us to guarantee about overall migration of can body (test condition based con the food cotact to select the food simulant: acetic acid & ethanol)

- Fantastic!

Extensive and excellent validations except whether your cans are able to withstand the shelf life of the intended beverages or products i.e. chemical reactive ingredient consituents! I am sure you have set your application range and tolerance for your cans. See no major obstacles really.

Cheers,
Charles Chew
www.naturalmajor.com

lamphuong

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vietnam

Posted 23 August 2008 - 03:10 AM

Sorry ! I seem to be confused again :unsure:

For the empty can (our packaging product), after shelf life time, we can conduct the migration test. I think it already cover our internal test (Metal exposure- ME & adhesion test) because if ME test & adhesion test not Ok the the migration result will be affect.

Then how could we test the can with the product inside (there are several kind of beverage: coke, juice, tea, soya bean, glass jelly,...) and I think this must at the customer validation shelf life side for their product ??? :unsure: .
Or we should test the specific migration in the product as As Nur advice which can be migrate from our can struture by using the food stimulant (acetic acid & ethanol) - I guess !

Regards,

Lamphuong



Charles Chew

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,178 posts
  • 52 thanks
8
Neutral

  • Malaysia
    Malaysia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia
  • Interests:Food, food and food!

Posted 23 August 2008 - 07:29 AM

and I think this must at the customer validation shelf life side for their product ???

I agree! Planning for the realization of safe products to meet regulatory and customer requirements involves the suitability of the packaging material as well. As a buyer of your cans, I would need to risk assess that your can specifications are suitable for packaging our products (e.g. low acid beverages) to sustain our intended end product shelf life.

IMO, you have performed appropriate validations on the can. Perhaps, its time to WORK with your customer......don't you think so.

Cheers,
Charles Chew
www.naturalmajor.com

AS NUR

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 582 posts
  • 58 thanks
9
Neutral

  • Indonesia
    Indonesia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:east java, indonesia

Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:07 AM

Sorry ! I seem to be confused again :unsure:

For the empty can (our packaging product), after shelf life time, we can conduct the migration test. I think it already cover our internal test (Metal exposure- ME & adhesion test) because if ME test & adhesion test not Ok the the migration result will be affect.

Then how could we test the can with the product inside (there are several kind of beverage: coke, juice, tea, soya bean, glass jelly,...) and I think this must at the customer validation shelf life side for their product ??? :unsure: .
Or we should test the specific migration in the product as As Nur advice which can be migrate from our can struture by using the food stimulant (acetic acid & ethanol) - I guess !

Regards,

Lamphuong


Dear Lamphoung

You can test by food stimulant (acetic acid & Ethanol) to show that your can is OK if the customer use for low pH product... but I think better if you work together with your supplier.. to get real data of your can...

:thumbup:


Bryan

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 1 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

Posted 26 August 2008 - 06:10 PM

I'm Lamphuong. My company is Two piece Aluminum can making provess that mean food pakaging industries. I wonder whether ISO 22K not so strictly on control the Pre-requisite programs ???


Hi Lamphuong. I'm not familiar with ISO22000. The standard that might fill your requirements is BRC/IoP designed specifically for the food packaging industry


lamphuong

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vietnam

Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:50 AM

Dear All,
Thank you very much for your replies,
Now, I understand clearly about the way to conduct the validation for shelf life.

During validation of hazard identified, I have question:

For the material coated outside the can - white base coat ( polyacryl modified) , the hazard during the process to apply this white coat is this material may contaminate/stick to inside of the can. Then I need to analyse the toxic of this material.
Based on the MSDS of this material: in section toxicological information stated : thershold limit value not establish by ACGIH (suggestion 100 ppm). And also the supplier provided the letter to guarantee about the Heavy Metal content comply with the CONEG legislation on packaging material (do not exceed 100 mg/kg).

May I conclude that the severity of this hazard is none ? And we only consider this defect as a quality defect (not food safety defect) and control by the Quality Plan.

Regards,

Lamphuong



Aboudi

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 1 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Syria
    Syria

Posted 29 January 2015 - 09:51 PM

Dear Sirs,

I am a new on ISO 22000 implementaion fpr aluminium cans, My question, how i will implement the clause related HACCP, because there is no food to deal wiyh?

 

best regards






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users