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pjmartin

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 11:43 AM

Hi,

One of the factories in our group is looking for accreditation to the BRC/IoP standard this autumn, the problem I have is that the site is in Malaysia and as is common practice in the Far East the canteen is open air.
How do we stand with this as far as the BRC/IoP standard.
The factory is also undergoing some structual work and it is a possibility that the canteen will be moved so that the work can take palce, again how would we stand as regards a temporary canteen, would we get through the accreditation audit?


Thanks

Phil



Simon

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 07:16 PM

Hi Phil, welcome to the forums. :thumbup:

Interesting question however I've not come across this so I'll have to hold my hands up and say I don't know for sure. That said it doesn't say you cannot eat al fresco in the Standard and it may well be acceptable provided there are adequate controls in place. It would be useful if you could let us know whether the company is Category 'A' or 'B', whether operators change into their personal clothing before eating and any other information so we can get a picture.

Let us know the above and perhaps we could brainstorm the possible risks that we may encounter and the controls that we may need. I will also try and get the views of a BRC/IOP Auditor or two.

Regards,
Simon


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okido

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:01 AM

We do not have an open air canteen but we created facilities outside in the form of seats and tables were people can sit during breaks.
Eating and drinking is permitted only on these designated area's.
No need to change clothes or shoes.
The area's are kept clean conform a cleaning schedule. Bins need to be rodent prove.
We allow because there is not much difference from eating and drinking in the canteen with a roof above your head. :uhm:

Have a nice day, Okido



Simon

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 03:34 PM

We allow because there is not much difference from eating and drinking in the canteen with a roof above your head. :uhm:

OK what about bird pooh? :whistle:

Regards,
Simon

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okido

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 06:01 AM

Hi Simon,

I knew somebody would come up with bird pooh. :clap:

In case of a bird dropping on a person clothes need to be changed.


Have a nice day, Okido



Simon

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 08:18 AM

Just to continue with the bird pooh thread, birds rise pretty early in the morning so there's a risk from the stuff already being on the seating and tables. Okido do you check / clean seating and tables before or after use?

To be honest I'm struggling to see many risks provided the eating area is well thought out e.g. on concrete (or similar), away from bushes, foliage etc. suitable lidded waste receptacles are available, rigorous cleaning schedules are in place and of course hand washing before return to work. Would the weather have any effect - what happens when it rains? :dunno:

Regards,
Simon


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Witch

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 11:49 AM

Hallo okido, do you wait for someone coming over with flies? :lol2:
From my microbiological point of view I see lots of problems with open air.
Bird pooh is just one aspect, flies are another, ...what about cats and wild animals??? Butterflies??? DUST??? --> Spores!!!
And if there is wind: even transfer of dry cow pooh from the environment...

:dunno:

I would reflect about that!

:bye:



pjmartin

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 11:58 AM

Hi,

One of the factories in our group is looking for accreditation to the BRC/IoP standard this autumn, the problem I have is that the site is in Malaysia and as is common practice in the Far East the canteen is open air.
How do we stand with this as far as the BRC/IoP standard.
The factory is also undergoing some structual work and it is a possibility that the canteen will be moved so that the work can take palce, again how would we stand as regards a temporary canteen, would we get through the accreditation audit?
Thanks

Phil



Good afternoon Simon,

Have you any news from the BRC/IoP auditors that you know concerning this issue.
I have contacted someone who was involved in writing the first issue of the standard and his interpretation is as below, what do you think?

The position of the canteen arrangements is probably more flexible that you might think. Part 7.4 of the standard really only requires that rest and break facilities 'shall be of a suitable standard'. Moreover, there are actually specific requirements for eating outside the factory (see 5.1.3). The main issue, so far as eating outside is concerned, is the provision of a designated area, and control of waste.

Food preparation by the company, or a sub contractor, would have to be carried out in a way that satisfies basic food safety requirements. Perhaps being able to demonstrate that staff have had local (recognised) food safety training would be useful, as well a cooking facilities that look business-like.

As with all of the Standard, the attitude of the evaluator is of great importance. Your role (or that of whoever deals with the evaluator) is to be able to put a good case for whatever you do.



Thanks

Phil


Brian Fowler

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 07:51 PM

Hi Simon and Phil
The other co-writer of the first edition of the packaging standard has explicitly detailed the requirements. I can do no more than agree with what he stated.
Best wishes
Brian Fowler



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Posted 31 May 2005 - 07:59 PM

So Phil, you've heard it from two people who were involved in writing the Standard and one very experienced BRC/IOP Auditor. At the end of the day assess the risk of your individual situation and put in common sense and best practice controls; hopefully then you will be able to convince a pragmatic auditor.

Thanks for everyone's input. :thumbup:

Regards,
Simon


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pjmartin

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 01:05 PM

So Phil, you've heard it from two people who were involved in writing the Standard and one very experienced BRC/IOP Auditor.  At the end of the day assess the risk of your individual situation and put in common sense and best practice controls; hopefully then you will be able to convince a pragmatic auditor.

Thanks for everyone's input. :thumbup:

Regards,
Simon



Hi,

If the canteen is openair, do you think that the personnel should have to change out of their protective clothing or would it be ok to leave them on?

Thanks

Phil


Simon

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 08:55 PM

I believe Okido's company are BRC/IOP Certified and he tells us they do not change clothing when using the outside picnic area. Okido perhaps you could confirm this and whether you have received any comments from your 3rd party auditor. :dunno:

Regards,
Simon


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okido

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 07:00 AM

Goodday Simon,

We are certified conform the Dutch HACCP standard and we will change shortly to BRC IoP.
Audits from third parties for IFS or BRC IoP went without problems. :clap:

Do not forget to share good fortune with your friends, Okido



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Posted 13 June 2005 - 06:45 PM

Goodday Simon,

We are certified conform the Dutch HACCP standard and we will change shortly to BRC IoP.  Audits from third parties for IFS or BRC IoP went without problems. :clap:

Thanks for the reply Okido..and congratulations. :thumbup:

Regards,
Simon

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