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Auditor's competency for ISO 22000


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Charles Chew

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 03:22 AM

Simon,

As you are in UK, it would probably be appropriate for Saferpak to find out the competency requirements to be an ISO 22000 food auditor.

Unless, I have missed out, there is nothing in the standard or the relevant ISO/TS that indicated the requirements needed to be an ISO 22K auditor.

Q -Since it is under Guide 62, can an IRCA QMS-Registered Auditor audit ISO 22K.

Q -If so, will there be requirements such as minimum food auditing log before being allowed to lead or whats the conversion requirements?

Q -Will BRC/IFS auditors be allowed to convert to ISO 22K auditors.

The impact of the current situation with this regard (as I am told) is pretty serious because there appears to be a shortage of qualified food auditors to participate in this new standard and I fear that the quality of auditors may be compromised if the conversion of auditors from QMS to Food is not done appropriately.

At least in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore, CBs are scrambling for IRCA Food Registered Auditors.........and there are not many around.

Charles Chew


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Simon

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 06:00 AM

Let me do some sniffing around and I'll get back to you Charles.

Simon


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Charles Chew

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 01:19 PM

Let me do some sniffing around



Thanks

Charles Chew

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Simon

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 09:10 PM

Charles, I have sent your query to our contact at UKAS. Will revert to the group as soon as I have some information for you.

Regards,
Simon


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Simon

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 08:49 AM

Simon,

As you are in UK, it would probably be appropriate for Saferpak to find out the competency requirements to be an ISO 22000 food auditor.

Unless, I have missed out, there is nothing in the standard or the relevant ISO/TS that indicated the requirements needed to be an ISO 22K auditor.

Q -Since it is under Guide 62, can an IRCA QMS-Registered Auditor audit ISO 22K.

Q -If so, will there be requirements such as minimum food auditing log before being allowed to lead or whats the conversion requirements?

Q -Will BRC/IFS auditors be allowed to convert to ISO 22K auditors.

The impact of the current situation with this regard (as I am told) is pretty serious because there appears to be a shortage of qualified food auditors to participate in this new standard and I fear that the quality of auditors may be compromised if the conversion of auditors from QMS to Food is not done appropriately.

At least in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore, CBs are scrambling for IRCA Food Registered Auditors.........and there are not many around.

Charles Chew

Charles, I know this may have been answered elsewhere on the forum but here is the reply I received from UKAS on your query:

Guidance on auditor requirements is being drafted (ISO/PDTS 22003: Food safety management systems - Requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of food safety management systems). UKAS is setting up a pilot programme to develop an accreditation scheme for 22000 and we may publish our own guidance in the future on auditor competence if we find that what is in the public domain is not sufficient. The person running this pilot is Pamela Beha (pb2@ukas.com).

I hope this helps. Please contact me if you need further information.

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Charles Chew

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 08:44 AM

if we find that what is in the public domain is not sufficient.


Simon,
I am aware of TS 22003 being prepared for the intended objectives to govern issues concerning audit and certification. And, while the pilot schemes are implemented, IMO, there is a fair bit of confusion/uncertainty out there as to what consitutes sufficient audit competency like i.e. can a QMS auditor audit an ISO 22000?

The earlier TS 22003 is released, the better it is for all concerned.

Charles Chew

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 01:55 PM

Hi Charles,

Not sure how other certification bodies will approach this, however to give you some confidence we as using a simular approach as for BRC food and dutch HACCP auditors. This includes on top of training in ISO22000 auditing, auditors must have a food science subject qualification and industry experience in the field. ie an auditor that can audit a bakery product may not have the technical knowledge to audit a high risk ready meal manufacturer. Each auditor has technical codes relating to the different industries to ensure technical competance.

Hope this helps


Joy Elizabeth Franks

Charles Chew

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 03:14 AM

we as using a simular approach as for BRC food and dutch HACCP auditors.


Joy,
I would be perfectly happy to get someone who is registered with BRC to do a Food Audit on our ISO 22000. IMO, BRC Food Auditors (apart from IRCA Food Registered which there are not many around) would be better positioned for ISO 22K. (What about QSA auditors?)

Regardless of BRC or Dutch HACCP based auditors, I think the forum should have a section dedicated to advising members on how to choose a "suitable" auditor for an external audit and likewise, the appropriate Certification Body.........w/o giving names of course.

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Charles Chew

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joyfranks

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 08:25 AM

Joy,
I would be perfectly happy to get someone who is registered with BRC to do a Food Audit on our ISO 22000. IMO, BRC Food Auditors (apart from IRCA Food Registered which there are not many around) would be better positioned for ISO 22K. (What about QSA auditors?)

Regardless of BRC or Dutch HACCP based auditors,  I think the forum should have a section dedicated to advising members on how to choose a "suitable" auditor for an external audit and likewise, the appropriate Certification Body.........w/o giving names of course.

Regards
Charles Chew


Hi Charles,

I think they go hand in hand, if you choose the right certification body then their auditors should be right also. As a client you can discuss auditor options with the certification body representative. We have profiles for each of our auditors, which covers their technical competance. Some certification bodies use external resource auditors, which can be more difficult to control so that might be a question to ask your certification body.

Regards

Joy Elizabeth Franks

Charles Chew

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 11:03 AM

Some certification bodies use external resource auditors, which can be more difficult to control


Hi Joy,
I am so glad that you brought this issue up. Each time I had to confront with a sub-contracted auditor, it is almost inevitable that problems crop up.......mostly silly ones.

I am not going to comment further because I do not allow this situation to happen to me again. Its either we get an in-house auditor (with relevant audit experience and sufficient audit log time) or we change CB. Yes - we do exercise our rights well

Charles Chew

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