12 replies to this topic

[pawilliams1]

Hi

If anyone is looking to buy a handheld ATP testing machine, let me know. I can get them relatively cheaply but if I buy a load of them together then obviously I can get a volume discount which I can pass on.

So if you need one or just want one, get in touch and I'll buy as many together as I can. I've already got one that I got a good price on so to make the world's food safer and help my colleagues, I'm happy to get them for other Quality or Technical Managers in the industry.

The way I will work it is that I will check every week to see how many people want one and order them on a weekly basis if there is sufficient demand.

Paul

[MRios]

Well I would sure love to have one of those ATP testing machines!!! And they are so expensive here!
But probably bringing it to Guatemala would be more expensive than the machine itself, which would defeat the whole purpose.
Anybody in Wales coming to Guatemala anytime soon?

[Simon]

Hi

If anyone is looking to buy a handheld ATP testing machine, let me know. I can get them relatively cheaply but if I buy a load of them together then obviously I can get a volume discount which I can pass on.

So if you need one or just want one, get in touch and I'll buy as many together as I can. I've already got one that I got a good price on so to make the world's food safer and help my colleagues, I'm happy to get them for other Quality or Technical Managers in the industry.

The way I will work it is that I will check every week to see how many people want one and order them on a weekly basis if there is sufficient demand.

Paul

Sorry for being thick but what is an ATP machine? Are you representing a business or are you just offering to get them for members?

[GMO]

ATP is the chemical which is present in all living organisms which is used as an energy source (now I'm talking from A level Biology now so excuse me if I'm spouting trash!) It's a quick way of testing for food residue or bacteria, however, they're not 100% accurate and should be used as a guideline / training tool. There can be a tendency to think they're more accurate than they are.

Biotrace (now 3M) I think are the biggest UK manufacturers.

Edited by GMO, 07 June 2009 - 05:12 PM.

[Charles.C]

Dear GMO,

however, they're not 100% accurate

I'm sure you are not suggesting that bacteriological count measurements are anywhere near 100% accurate ?

Valid comment nonetheless. I did notice in another thread here that at least the instrument suppliers do provide some, again from memory, (claimed) statistically supported ranges of good/fair/unacceptable data although presumably has the same caveat as for bacteria data that the significance will always depend upon the specific environment. I also don't know how consistent any suggestions are between suppliers.

I've never used ATP instruments (too expensive) but hv occasionally seen some quite impressive looking calibration charts with comparison to plate counts under controlled conditions. However I do seem to remember that there are certain situations where ATP methodology is simply not appropriate (biologically speaking I expect).

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

A bit of background ATP stands for Adenosine-5-triphosphate, it is the fundamental molecule of energy in a cell. It releases energy by breaking down to ADP(Adenosine diphosphate) and AMP(Adenosine monophosphate). ATP can be found in bacteria and food debris.
ATP Bioluminescence works by light being generated by a reaction of oxidising Luciferin(a light emitting biological pigment) with ATP and Oxygen catalysed by the enzyme Luciferase.
The technology uses Luciferin and Luciferase from the Firefly because it is known that they require ATP to be present in order for light to be produced.
The instruments measure the amount of light emitted which should be proportional to the amount of ATP present from the swab/sample.

As ATP is present in Food Debris and Bacteria ATP swabbing is an excellent indicator of hygiene and is used in many factories to positively release filling machines as clean. Setting up of a swabbing system requires doing some background work to establish readings for clean equipment and then setting limits. I first used this sytem to release filling machines 15 years ago and improved our micro results 100 fold. I am a big fan as it enables you to control the process rather than waiting for a couple of days to see if the micro swab results were okay.

I have also worked on ATP technology to test product and have used it to reduce the release of UHT products from 7 days to 3 days. If anyone wants any more details then let me know.

Regards,

Tony

[Simon]

Thanks for the explanation guys and gals.

[pawilliams1]

Sorry for the delay in replying - I have been off work for a couple of days due to food poisoning (the irony is not lost on me!).

What ATP is has already been more than adequately answered, so at least I don't have to go into a detailed explanation.

In reply to Simon, I don't represent a company that sells the machines. I work for a meat company and I found a company that sells them much more cheaply than I have found them anywhere else. About £700 for the machine compared to the £1500 to £2500 I had been quoted elsewhere.

I therefore thought it would be a good idea to share this amongst my colleagues in the world of food safety and figured that if my colleagues bought in bulk I could probably get even better savings for you.

This particularly applies to my colleagues in the UK but if there are colleagues abroad that want one at this price, I would be prepared to find out how much postage to your country would cost (but you would obviously have to meet the cost of postage).

For my colleague in Guatemala, this would add about £15 to the price according to Royal Mail's online calculator.

I hope this is helpful!

[Simon]

Ok thanks Paul very generous offer. Any takers?

[GMO]

Dear GMO,

I'm sure you are not suggesting that bacteriological count measurements are anywhere near 100% accurate ?

Ha! No. Good point. However, some people think ATP swabbing and micro swabbing are comparable. They're not. I suppose you could argue that micro swabbing would not pick up food debris unless bacterial growth had started; however, I once had a QA tell me that the ATP result on a belt was "ok" but "the belt looked dirty". ATP swabbing therefore is no substitute to some bl**dy common sense!

I've also had limits of 100 RLU but been told 99 RLU is fine. Hmm. You see my challenges with it I'm sure!

Honestly? I only use it because our group function forces us to. I have run another chilled factory without it and seen improvements in environmental micro without needing a dinky machine and swabs at 50p a pop (at least) to give me a rapid indication.

[Tony-C]

I wouldn't use ATP swabs for environmental sampling only food contact surfaces.

I don't understand your point regards "I've also had limits of 100 RLU but been told 99 RLU is fine" The same applies to any test : TVC maximum 100 therefore 99 is a pass. The thing is any limits should have a safety or error margin built in.

[GMO]

I wouldn't use ATP swabs for environmental sampling only food contact surfaces.

I don't understand your point regards "I've also had limits of 100 RLU but been told 99 RLU is fine" The same applies to any test : TVC maximum 100 therefore 99 is a pass. The thing is any limits should have a safety or error margin built in.

I was just meaning it's not that accurate. If 100 RLU is out of spec, 99 might be 'ok' to produce but should perhaps involve further investigation before doing so. Just trying to point out with something that is inaccurate having black / white limits is probably meaningless.

[Charles.C]

Working with averages is one way to slightly ease any rejection pain. A cheap version of double sampling.

Rgds / Charles.C