10 replies to this topic

[aps]

To you poultry people out there please help........ this is new to me as my background is bakery & Produce

I understand that legals state despatch of carcuss to processing plants should be below 4'c and further processing (cutting plant) is below 4'c. Now the problem i need help with is, Our HACCP and procedures say above 4'c we reject. OK the last week we have had temperaures on intake between 5-6'c in which according to our HACCP plan we should reject. However the GM accepted in to further chill and use.

Now our Divisional Tech Mgr told myself and my TM that under these circumstances we need to look at it from a Operational point of view and come up with other solutions to accept rather than reject, speak to supplying sites to understand from their point of veiw why we having these issues. Also take the product in and further chill.

But as far as i am concerned this is out of the MHS leglislation, breech of HACCP in which i am not prepared to take responsibility for and accept these brought into intake.
All i am trying to do is stay within legals and cust requirements. I understand this is not an ideal world.......
WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST, ANY FURTHER ADVICE OUT THERE FOR ME TO TAKE ONBOARD

Thanks

[Charles.C]

Dear aps,

I sympathise with yr situation as you describe it.

I’m not a poultry person or in UK but I guess you are following the requirements of MIG (2006) ? If so, the relevant receiving HACCP control appears to be (?) as per attachment below –

 receiving_product.png   54.78KB   36 downloads

This seems to offer alternatives for corrective action in addition to direct rejection for inclusion in yr HACCP plan ?
Any UK poultry experts here?

Rgds / Charles.C

[Sujit]

Dear Member,
Take samples from the lot and analyse for chemical and micro parameters. I have experienced similar situation in tuna industry and later approved it.
Regards,
Sujit

[Lanser]

Hi aps,
as a Technical Manager in the poultry industry I can sympathise with your position it's not uncommon for Operational issues to be forced through despite our best efforts.

With regard to the temp issue its not so much that its contra to your HACCP but that it is against the Food Safety Regs namely 853/2004 Annex III Section II Poultry and Lagomorphs Slaughter Hygiene Chaper IV point 8 I would suggest getting written confirmation from your TM/Divisional TM if they are suggestion you ignore it.

[Charles.C]

Dear lancer,

Thks for comment. Of course, potential for job loss is not totally unrelated also.

Do you hv a link for yr reference ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[aps]

i have looked at this standard and this does not mention anything regarding temperatures like the MHS regs


Thanks

[ads78]

Of course- their is a risk factor that needs to be considered. The reason for the temp limits would be to limit the multiplication of pathogenic bacteria, keeping product out of the "danger zone" (so below 5 or above 63C). For Poultry your considering Clostridium Perfringens(growth 15 to 53C) and Salmonella (growth 7 to 47C), other may also be relevant. Time/ teperature monitoring would allow you to assess the risk, so temp loggers on your transport. Then its about hammering your transport for delivering outside of the range. May also be worth getting carcasses from your supplier below 4 or seting lorry temp below 4 to ensure intake spec is met?

As with alot of things, meeting spec is nt always possible, which is when you need to scare them with the potential for a ealistic case of food poisoning. It may be that your further processing will help?

[AS NUR]

To you poultry people out there please help........ this is new to me as my background is bakery & Produce

I understand that legals state despatch of carcuss to processing plants should be below 4'c and further processing (cutting plant) is below 4'c. Now the problem i need help with is, Our HACCP and procedures say above 4'c we reject. OK the last week we have had temperaures on intake between 5-6'c in which according to our HACCP plan we should reject. However the GM accepted in to further chill and use.

Now our Divisional Tech Mgr told myself and my TM that under these circumstances we need to look at it from a Operational point of view and come up with other solutions to accept rather than reject, speak to supplying sites to understand from their point of veiw why we having these issues. Also take the product in and further chill.

But as far as i am concerned this is out of the MHS leglislation, breech of HACCP in which i am not prepared to take responsibility for and accept these brought into intake.
All i am trying to do is stay within legals and cust requirements. I understand this is not an ideal world.......
WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST, ANY FURTHER ADVICE OUT THERE FOR ME TO TAKE ONBOARD

Thanks

... i understand that your TM said about "operational point of view", its about cost (money). so better you monitoring the product more frequent and collect the data and get the resume with statistically....

so I just say " talk by data's", its more objective then just say " no or yes"..

rgds

AS Nur

[Simon]

so I just say " talk by data's", its more objective then just say " no or yes"..

100% agree.

[Jean]

I would ask the supplier the reason for temperature deviation and how long the temperature had deviated. I assume the poultry was raw and will be cooked to kill any pathogens that had multiplied (if any) when the product was in the danger zone for less than 2 hours . If there is no significant risks then accept the delivery and report this to the supplier . The reason for my acceptance will be documented with a valid and scientific reason. Verification of this decision can be done by microbiological analysis.

[Lanser]

http://www.food.gov....uidehygienemeat

This is an easy to understand guide to the meat industry regulations you want to look at Part 2 chapters 8 10 and 11