12 replies to this topic

[HPG]

Dear all,

My company has bought a baking machine from China.
And now we're going to integrate ISO 22000 in our system.

When we asked the machine manufacturer to give a certificate to
guarantee that the conveyor of that machine is food contact equipment,
they can't give that and if we want a certificate to guarantee, we can buy
another machine that has cetificate about food contact equipment

What should we do? Do you have any suggestion ?

Is there any guidance about steel to be used for food contact equipment?

[Simon]

BUMP for Hadi.

[cazyncymru]

Dear all,

My company has bought a baking machine from China.
And now we're going to integrate ISO 22000 in our system.

When we asked the machine manufacturer to give a certificate to
guarantee that the conveyor of that machine is food contact equipment,
they can't give that and if we want a certificate to guarantee, we can buy
another machine that has cetificate about food contact equipment

What should we do? Do you have any suggestion ?

Is there any guidance about steel to be used for food contact equipment?

Hi Hadi, what material is the conveyor made of? you should have a specification.

There is a post on here about different grades of stainless steel. if i remember correctly, stainless steel for food manufacturing should be of grade 304.(i'm sure someone will tell me if i'm wrong)

The lesson here is to ensure you stipulate food grade before you source! hopefully you have a specification and it will say the grade of stainless used. i'll see if i can find the post for you

Knew it was there somewhere!

http://www.ifsqn.com...__1

caz x

[HPG]

Hi Hadi, what material is the conveyor made of? you should have a specification.

There is a post on here about different grades of stainless steel. if i remember correctly, stainless steel for food manufacturing should be of grade 304.(i'm sure someone will tell me if i'm wrong)

The lesson here is to ensure you stipulate food grade before you source! hopefully you have a specification and it will say the grade of stainless used. i'll see if i can find the post for you

Knew it was there somewhere!

http://www.ifsqn.com...__1

caz x

Dear caz,
well unfortunately, in the manual book of that machine, just say that it made from steel and our engineering said that it isn't made from stainless steel.
Is there any guidance or maybe literature that what kind of steel that good for food contact equipment, beside stainless steel?

Regrads,
Hadi

[GMO]

Y'ouch! If it's not stainless steel this will cause you a lot of problems because it will probably not be resistant to your cleaning chemicals and may cause rusting and / or pitting which will then create a foreign body and microbiological risk.

Is it worth taking a small sample of each of the materials and sending them to a metallurgist for confirmation on the construction? As for the conveyor belt itself, a replacement belt may be the best way to go.

Considering some of the truly frightening food safety issues coming out of China, at least you've been sensible enough to challenge this although I agree, the lesson is to stipulate in advance but as with every other Technical Manager in the world, I'm sure it's common for you to be told a new piece of equipment is arriving after the specification has been stipulated and it's either already in the door or they're mulling over how they get the bloody thing in the building!

[HPG]

Y'ouch! If it's not stainless steel this will cause you a lot of problems because it will probably not be resistant to your cleaning chemicals and may cause rusting and / or pitting which will then create a foreign body and microbiological risk.

Is it worth taking a small sample of each of the materials and sending them to a metallurgist for confirmation on the construction? As for the conveyor belt itself, a replacement belt may be the best way to go.

Considering some of the truly frightening food safety issues coming out of China, at least you've been sensible enough to challenge this although I agree, the lesson is to stipulate in advance but as with every other Technical Manager in the world, I'm sure it's common for you to be told a new piece of equipment is arriving after the specification has been stipulated and it's either already in the door or they're mulling over how they get the bloody thing in the building!

Dear GMO,
Thanks for you reply.
Well, the problem is we didn't think that it'll cause a problems when bought the machine. I don't know exactly, but I guess the price was quite low. We bought it 3 years ago and I think the top management just consider to integrate ISO 22000 into the system a few months ago
.
If we try to sending to a mettalurgist, it will take some times and searching the metallurgist is not a simple as I thought. because I don't know where to start.

Any suggestion?

Regards,
Hadi

[AS NUR]

Is there any guidance about steel to be used for food contact equipment?

HAdi..
may be this document can help you...

salam

AS NUR

Attached Files

•  Selection of stainless steels for the food processing industries.doc   48.5KB   60 downloads

[HPG]

HAdi..
may be this document can help you...

salam

AS NUR

Dear As Nur,
Thanks for the document.

Is there any guidance beside stainless steel? how about steel?

Regards,
Hadi

[AS NUR]

as i know for vegatable oil container as codex statement can made from mild steel... but idont know for your machine.... i have to find more in my files. i'll be back after i get the doc..

[Charles.C]

Dear hadi,

I tried googling "baking steel conveyors".

The only descriptions i saw were high quality steel (whatever that means!) and stainless steel 304 as mentioned several times previously.
I am no baking expert but I doubt very much (??) that any reputable manufacturer will recommend materials like mild steel for direct food contact at presumably high temperature conditions although i hv certainly seen it used in some bread pre-baking operations for (presumably) economic reasons.The long term surface durability compared to other stainless steel units in parallel use was sadly only too visible and generated a negative comment after my audit (the output showed no visible/significant magnetically detectable contamination etc). I daresay a more specialised (competent? ) auditor might hv been even more severe (the equipment was 2nd hand and 20years old although did possess an original manufacturer's specification denoting food grade ?.)

My conclusion is that if a reliable manufacturer will not give you a food grade certification for a recently purchased new unit, it very likely isn't. Sorry.

The only solution may unfortunately be the obvious one.

Rgds / Charles.C

PS @AS NUR thks for the nice attachment

[HPG]

Dear hadi,

I tried googling "baking steel conveyors".

The only descriptions i saw were high quality steel (whatever that means!) and stainless steel 304 as mentioned several times previously.
I am no baking expert but I doubt very much (??) that any reputable manufacturer will recommend materials like mild steel for direct food contact at presumably high temperature conditions although i hv certainly seen it used in some bread pre-baking operations for (presumably) economic reasons.The long term surface durability compared to other stainless steel units in parallel use was sadly only too visible and generated a negative comment after my audit (the output showed no visible/significant magnetically detectable contamination etc). I daresay a more specialised (competent? ) auditor might hv been even more severe (the equipment was 2nd hand and 20years old although did possess an original manufacturer's specification denoting food grade ?.)

My conclusion is that if a reliable manufacturer will not give you a food grade certification for a recently purchased new unit, it very likely isn't. Sorry.

The only solution may unfortunately be the obvious one.

Rgds / Charles.C

PS @AS NUR thks for the nice attachment

Dear Charles,

I also have tried googling "food contact surface"

and I found that cast iron and black iron are not recommended in food processing. however, cast iron maybe used as a surface for cooking.

Well, maybe the best solution is buy a new one (but I don't think that will happen )

I found articles that maybe useful.

Regards,
Hadi

Attached Files

•  flsgpe00001_part3.pdf   1.82MB   36 downloads
•  FDA-equipment&utensils.pdf   263.53KB   39 downloads
•  4. APEAL Steel GMP final_9-01-07.pdf   155.63KB   33 downloads
•  food contact surface.pdf   611.2KB   46 downloads
•  FS07700.pdf   104.97KB   33 downloads

[Zeeshan]

Dear Hadi,

Thanks for posting these useful articles.

Regards.

Zeeshan

[HPG]

Is it worth taking a small sample of each of the materials and sending them to a metallurgist for confirmation on the construction? As for the conveyor belt itself, a replacement belt may be the best way to go.

Well, now we try to check the material to metallurgist.
But, we didn't find any regulations or statement about the composition of machine and utensils material that good for food contact material.
Have you found any?

And for conveyor belt, we have already bought a new one and we got the certificate for direct contact

Regards,
Hadi

Attached Files

•  Guidelines metal and alloy.pdf   1.75MB   15 downloads
•  material inteded to food contact.pdf   135.48KB   19 downloads