14 replies to this topic

[tdubz]

Good evening first of all thanks for having me on the forum, as a young inexperienced QA i feel this forum is going to be more than useful to me

got an issue with specific relevance to the company i work for in light of the revision of BRC from version 5 to version 6

we use agents to source our meat, we also used direct suppliers. in order to asses our direct suppliers we go along the route of thrid party accreditation or SAQ.

my issue comes with the agents, a lot of them source meat from non brc approved sites, of which the buyer will not specify which sites the meats come from due to the cost problem.

with that in mind how would i construct a worth while SAQ and also risk assesment on the agents using non brc approved sites, also to make matters worse there is no fixed list of sites the agents use either creating a problem send SAQ out to the individual cutting or slaughtering plants

i hope i have made sense it what i am asking

regards

thomas

[tdubz]

Anybody able to offer any help?

[SZY]

Hi, tdubz

What I use now to approve agents is a piece of paper called "Supplier Declaration".
I put all the regulatory requirements on that papaer and let the agent to tick and sign it off.

[tdubz]

Do u have an example of what you mean? I kind of get where you are coming from but a visual would be a great help

Thank you for your help so far

Thomas

[SZY]

Hi, Thomas

I uploaded a basic one. You can add whatever you want to that Declaration.

Regards
Yvonne

[SZY]

Sorry, forgot to attach it just now.

Attached Files

•  Supplier Declaration.docx   17.31KB   194 downloads

[Madam A. D-tor]

Sorry, forgot to attach it just now.

Dear Yvonne and Thomas,

I would rather see a supplier (audit) questionnair for agents, then a statement.
It is not much different from the statement and the same issue can be in it. But instead of: "I declare that the products supplied comply with required legislation" the question "How do you guarentee that the products suppliec comply with required legislation". In this way the supplier/agent is forced to think about the questions before signing and you are getting more detailed information.

Make sure to put some specific questions in, regarding the products they supply. Product related. If these agens supply for example living animals: "are you able to provide the list of medicines used", if it is beef "are you able to provide the name of the slaughtery/ cutting company", for spices "can you provide certificates of analyse regarding Sudan Red" etc.

Thomas, do I understand correct, that you already have a supplier questionnair for your direct suppliers? Why can you not use this one for your agents?
Will you shar your questionnair with us?

[tdubz]

We do have a specifc questionaire for direct suppliers i will attach when i am at my computer.

The issue is that one of our agents uses a wide range of cutting plants etc of which it would be a near impossible task to aquire the completed questionaire from all of them because new additions are constant

I was thinking along the lines of getting the agent to fill in a suitable type of qiestionaire which would cover all of his potential sub suppliers in order to cover it

The issue is that not all the cutting plants are brc accredited so ot wouldnt be a case if just aquiring a pile of certs.

Is there somthing suitable which the agent could complete to satisfy brc req in this siituation?

[Madam A. D-tor]

We do have a specifc questionaire for direct suppliers i will attach when i am at my computer.

The issue is that one of our agents uses a wide range of cutting plants etc of which it would be a near impossible task to aquire the completed questionaire from all of them because new additions are constant

I was thinking along the lines of getting the agent to fill in a suitable type of qiestionaire which would cover all of his potential sub suppliers in order to cover it

The issue is that not all the cutting plants are brc accredited so ot wouldnt be a case if just aquiring a pile of certs.

Is there somthing suitable which the agent could complete to satisfy brc req in this siituation?

If the agent is your supplier, you probably have laid some requirements down to this supplier. E.g. a product specification indicating what products you want to be supplied. IMO the agent is your supplier and all specifications, agreements and audits should be confirmed/agreed between you and this supplier. It is the responsibility of your supplier (agent) that he and his products comply to your requirements. Even though he can not give names of cutting plants in advance, you can agree that he provides these information with delivery For example name or EG-number of the cutting plant. The requirement to use only EG approved cutting plants is something you can (and probably already have) agreed.

There is no need to approve the cutting plants yourself. That is a task/responsibility of your agent.

3.5.1.3 says The procedures shall define how exceptions are handled (e.g. where raw material suppliers are prescribed by a customer or where products are purchased from agents and direct audit or monitoring has not been undertaken)
Make sure you include the exceptions in your supplier approval procedure.
Make sure there are agreements with your supplier, indicating which is his responsibility and what is yours. Selection of suppliers is somehow outsourced if you use an agent.
Make sure you have documented the risk assessment for the products/product groups supplied. (perhaps you should somehow identify the risks involved with purchasing through an agent, and put control measures in place. These control measures are problably the agreement with the agent.)

If your agent is storing the products itself for a while, he can be certified for BRC S&D module wholesale. If your agent does not store the products itself, he can be certified against IFS Broker. Both are not GFSI approved.
IMO there is in the BRC Food iss 6 no requirement to source products only from BRC certified producers (in your case cutting plants).

[trubertq]

Hi Thomas,
A company I work with also has agents and direct suppliers... (shellfish) we use a SAQ and send to the agents. If a non-conformance arises with product supplied by these agents it is their responsibility to take it back to the fishermen they represent. So far this has worked for us. We also only take mock recalls as far as the sales agents, ( on advisement from our CB). We do traceability back as far as the agents too.... I hope this helps. Sometimes it's easier to do the simple thing first and see how it works, I agonised over this issue but the logistics of trying to cover every shellfish supplier was getting to complicated.We will continue as we do until told otherwise ( probably next audit knowing my luck).



Trudy

[tdubz]

Hope everybody has had a good festive period. Can anybody offer any further asistance with this topic

Many thanks

[Madam A. D-tor]

Hope everybody has had a good festive period. Can anybody offer any further asistance with this topic

hi Thomas,

Wat kind of assistance are you still looking for?
We provided a lot of information and suggestions.

Where are you stuck?

[tdubz]

I do apologise im reading this on my phone and did not realise there had been more replies.

Ill read them now

Sorry again not great on the iphone hahah

[mind over matter]

Good evening first of all thanks for having me on the forum, as a young inexperienced QA i feel this forum is going to be more than useful to me

got an issue with specific relevance to the company i work for in light of the revision of BRC from version 5 to version 6

we use agents to source our meat, we also used direct suppliers. in order to asses our direct suppliers we go along the route of thrid party accreditation or SAQ.

my issue comes with the agents, a lot of them source meat from non brc approved sites, of which the buyer will not specify which sites the meats come from due to the cost problem.

with that in mind how would i construct a worth while SAQ and also risk assesment on the agents using non brc approved sites, also to make matters worse there is no fixed list of sites the agents use either creating a problem send SAQ out to the individual cutting or slaughtering plants

i hope i have made sense it what i am asking

regards

thomas

The suggestion I could make has already been suggested on. One thing that I haven't seen said is that some standards allows flexibility in the methods of evaluation. There are a number of methods of evaluating suppliers dependent on the specific requirements that you as a customer have or your industry requires


Some standards such as ISO 9001 say

The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply products in accordance with the organization’s requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation, and re-evaluation shall be established.

I'm not sure what BRC specifically requires, but I'm sure it doesn't say that no evaluation is an option.

Edited by mind over matter, 04 January 2012 - 03:57 AM.

[Tony-C]

I'm not sure what BRC specifically requires, but I'm sure it doesn't say that no evaluation is an option.

BRC is quite specific, it requires a risk assessment of raw materials and a documented supplier approval and monitoring procedure based on a combination of:
- supplier audits
- 3rd party audits or certification
- supplier questionaires

Regards,


Tony