10 replies to this topic

[Mitch H]

Hi, first post here.

 

We have a liquid sweeteners, molasses, corn syrup etc., operation where our CCP is a screen. Inside each screen housing is a rod magnet that is just placed inside the canister to help pick up any metal. We check the screen regularly for holes and foreign materiel and part of that check is just to make sure the magnet is cleaned and in place however it is not part of the CCP. A customer is pushing us to make that magnet a CP and establish critical limits and conduct pull tests etc. We rarely ever find any actual metal on the magnet and the screen is 20 mesh which would pick it up anyway. We are wondering if we can justify not having magnets or if it does need to be a CP, is establishing critical limits and all that necessary. We are working toward becoming BRC certified and we havent found any real info in the standard on how to handle CPs.

 

Any advice would really help.  

[GMO]

I do love magnets which are there to pick up 'any metal'.  Please let me know what they're made of and you may just win the Nobel prize!    

 

Magnets pick up ferrous metals and that might not include Stainless Steel if it's a decent grade.  So what is it there for?

 

What do you mean by 20 mesh?  What micron is it?

 

Personally I'd get rid of the magnet.  I mean what is it really there for?  Make sure your sieves are checked regularly for finds / tailings and for integrity.

 

CPs are pretty old fashioned IMO and have been replaced largely by operational prerequisites.  This isn't a requirement of BRC but of ISO22000.  You can't have a critical limit unless it's a critical control point anyway surely?

 

A quick rule of thumb on whether something needs to be a CCP is "Would I lose sleep if I thought the factory were running without it".  To be honest, there are arguments about your sieve as well depending on whether you have any other foreign matter detection equipment and how well your suppliers control the issues...  

[Mitch H]

Thanks for the advice GMO,

 

20 mesh is the same as 841 micron. 

 

They sieves are checked daily and are the last precaution so they are the CCP that will ensure there is no foreign material. 

 

I tend to agree with you about removing the magnets. They were probably added just because we could several years ago as an extra precaution not thinking anything about actually really monitoring them.  Just hope the customer goes for it. Maybe a risk assessment would help convince them. 

[Mitch H]

Oh and you are right about the "any metal" comment. I wish someone would invent them also. 

[GMO]

Sorry I was just being facetious.

 

So we're talking less than 1mm?  Does seem like it should be a pretty effective foreign body control in it's own right.

[SPL]

 

 Inside each screen housing is a rod magnet that is just placed inside the canister to help pick up any metal. .

 

If the magnet is placed before  the screen it is a CP, since the screen would capture any forgien body.  

 

If you're heading to BRC and plan to make it a CCP; a daliy strenght test is need, not a pass/fail inspection. I would keep it a CP.

[Charles.C]

A customer is pushing us to make that magnet a CP and establish critical limits and conduct pull tests etc.

 

Dear OscarP,

 

I interpreted this as a typo for CCP. And similarly for the second CP.

 

Or perhaps you customarily attach critical limits to CPs ?

 

I also wondered if there might be a MD lurking further down the line. Perhaps depending on yr product specification.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Mitch H]

Charles,

It was not a typo, I did mean CP not CCP. We definitely are not going to make it a CCP. We do not typically attached critical limits to CP's but that is what the customer is wanting. I was wondering if that is normal for a CP to have critical limits but it doenst sound like it. We really dont want to jump through a bunch of hoops for something that is unnecessary.

 

The only CCP we have in this line is the sifter screen. No MD.

[GMO]

I don't see the point in it.  I doubt the screen is ferrous metal anyway so it's not to pick up if that is broken so why?  I am also inherently distrustful of magnets; they have a habit of collecting contamination then dumping it back in!

[moskito]

Hi,

 

for me the magnet is a CP and the sieve is a CCP. If the sieve is not a metal but nylon etc the magnet might help in protecting the sieve.

I aggree with GMO that a magnet collects pieces but can release it by product flow after having received a certain size.

For me one important point is to analyse what was caught by magnet or sieve and to look for cause. Magnets might help to reduce the fines with are not rejected by the sieve but are still "foreign material" which not belongs to the product.

 

Rgds

moskito

[GMO]

 But why do any of you have CPs?  I personally can't stand oPRPs because I'm a decisive person but in my mind CPs are the same kind of thing if not worse.  "We want to say something about this bit of kit but we don't think it's a CCP."  Make a decision!  Is it vital for the process?  No.  Would you lose sleep if you ran without it?  No.  So at best it's a prerequisite but personally, I'd just remove it!