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Retort packaging of panjiri


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#1 Zeeshan

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 10:16 AM

Dear members,

 

Do somebody have any experience of retort packaging of panjiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjiri)? What would be the target temperature and holding time of sterilization for this and similar type of product. The issue is not having satisfactory microbiological results at 112 deg celcius holding for 4~6 minutes. And there is a possibility of burning affect by increasing the temperature due to dry nature of the product. Should we experience to increase the holding time at same temperature or increase both the temperature and holding time.

 

Regards.

Muhammad Zeeshan Zaki.



#2 Avila

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:37 AM

Dear members,

 

Do somebody have any experience of retort packaging of panjiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjiri)? What would be the target temperature and holding time of sterilization for this and similar type of product. The issue is not having satisfactory microbiological results at 112 deg celcius holding for 4~6 minutes. And there is a possibility of burning affect by increasing the temperature due to dry nature of the product. Should we experience to increase the holding time at same temperature or increase both the temperature and holding time.

 

Regards.

Muhammad Zeeshan Zaki.

My suggestion is you have to calculate the exact processing time and temperature by heat penetration test. What kind of packaging and pH, Aw value of your final product?



#3 Charles.C

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:33 AM

Dear members,

 

Do somebody have any experience of retort packaging of panjiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjiri)? What would be the target temperature and holding time of sterilization for this and similar type of product. The issue is not having satisfactory microbiological results at 112 deg celcius holding for 4~6 minutes. And there is a possibility of burning affect by increasing the temperature due to dry nature of the product. Should we experience to increase the holding time at same temperature or increase both the temperature and holding time.

 

Regards.

Muhammad Zeeshan Zaki.

Dear Zeeshan,

 

The link in yr OP gave this result on my PC -

 

Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Panjiri) in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.

 

 

I presume yr micro. comment implies that yr present "product" is not commercially sterile.?

 

Yr initial query is impossible to (generally)  answer without further product /  process information.

 

Maybe you could indicate how yr Production team selected the present process data you mention ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

PS – some basic requirements/procedures in the documents attached this thread/post respectively –  

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ion/#entry48963

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ge-2#entry71207


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#4 swanswal

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:27 PM

I will throw in my $0.02 worth...

 

On looking at the wiki link you provided, this product appears to be some kind of sweet snack with a cereal base (flour).

 

IF I have got that right, then in my view, no amount of retorting at 112 deg C will 'sterilise' this product.  Given you indicate a reluctance to increase temps further (due to burning), then retorting is not an option for sterilising.

 

If you HAVE to have it sterilised AND you don't want to excessively heat it, I suggest you investigate alternative sterilising methods such as Gamma irradiation or Ethylene Oxide.

 

Good luck.



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#5 swanswal

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:37 PM

On thinking about this further, is this product cooked in hot oil?  If it is, and that is an assumption on my part, that cooking step would pretty much knock out any bugs in the product if it cooks right through.  This makes me wonder if you have an issue with post process recontamination....

 

Maybe it's sterile already and the food is recontaminated when placed into packaging?

 

Just a thought.....

 

cheers



#6 Zeeshan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:38 AM

My suggestion is you have to calculate the exact processing time and temperature by heat penetration test. What kind of packaging and pH, Aw value of your final product?

 

Packaging is 4 layered retort pouch Pet-Al-Nylon-CPP. pH is in range of 5.0-6.4. aw is between 0.6-0.8.



#7 Zeeshan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:06 AM

Dear swanswal,

Thanks for your reply.

 

I will throw in my $0.02 worth...

 

On looking at the wiki link you provided, this product appears to be some kind of sweet snack with a cereal base (flour).

 

IF I have got that right, then in my view, no amount of retorting at 112 deg C will 'sterilise' this product.  Given you indicate a reluctance to increase temps further (due to burning), then retorting is not an option for sterilising.

 

If you HAVE to have it sterilised AND you don't want to excessively heat it, I suggest you investigate alternative sterilising methods such as Gamma irradiation or Ethylene Oxide.

 

Good luck.

 

1. Yes, the product is a sweet snack-type cereal based (Semolina).

 

2. If by trial we could be able to increase the temperature and we find the product OK after sensory evaluation, even then we would say that "product is not sterilized"? What would be the limit of temperature and holding time to say confidently that "this product has been sterilized".

 

 

On thinking about this further, is this product cooked in hot oil?  If it is, and that is an assumption on my part, that cooking step would pretty much knock out any bugs in the product if it cooks right through.  This makes me wonder if you have an issue with post process recontamination....

 

Maybe it's sterile already and the food is recontaminated when placed into packaging?

 

Just a thought.....

 

cheers

 

3. The product ingredients are fried in hot oil.

 

4. There are very less chances of re-contamination of the product after frying as the product is hygienically filled, sealed and retorted. The sterilization is assumed to be required to make the product shelf-stable.

 

Regards.

Muhammad Zeeshan Zaki.



#8 Ratchet

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:10 PM

Dear Sir,

With a reported aW of .8-.6, your lack of sterilization is not of Public Heath Significence, but one of Quality. You have some basis to using a "hurdle" type process if the ph and the aW can be controlled, with the ph below 6.4 and closer to 5.0 and the aW on the lower end of the spectrum, say no more than .75, then you should have a process that can control the growth of any molds or yeast. As Avila notes, proper heat penetration and product testing should be done to determine the correct process for your product. With what you are reporting on the product characteristics, you should not be seeing any bacterial growth. My opinion.



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#9 Avila

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 01:45 AM

Packaging is 4 layered retort pouch Pet-Al-Nylon-CPP. pH is in range of 5.0-6.4. aw is between 0.6-0.8.

Your critical control point  is maintain aw not greater than 0.85. I assume that you use horizontal still retorts that cause burning effect on final product. My suggestion is using vertical still retort (water medium) to minimize burning effect. The most important thing is do heat heat penetration test to determine time and temperature of thermal processing



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#10 Charles.C

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 02:50 AM

Dear Zeeshan,

 

If by trial we could be able to increase the temperature and we find the product OK after sensory evaluation, even then we would say that "product is not sterilized"? What would be the limit of temperature and holding time to say confidently that "this product has been sterilized".

 

 

With all respect, this query slightly makes one wonder as to the technical capability of yr Production Unit since as I understand retort pouches for other items are already in routine production ??

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

PS - if the answer is really unknown, i suggest some perusal of the links in my post #3


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#11 Zeeshan

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:56 AM

Dear Zeeshan,

 

 

With all respect, this query slightly makes one wonder as to the technical capability of yr Production Unit since as I understand retort pouches for other items are already in routine production ??

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

PS - if the answer is really unknown, i suggest some perusal of the links in my post


 

 

I could not raise questions about technical capabilities of the product development, quality and production unit as I am by myself is neither a.FT or a microbiologist. I was querying to increase my own understanding.


Edited by Zeeshan, 24 April 2014 - 04:57 AM.


#12 Charles.C

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 05:04 PM

Dear Zeeshan,

 

OK, i understand.

 

But i sincerely hope yr Production team do know the answer also. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#13 Charles.C

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:02 AM

Dear Zeeshan,

 

Sort of addendum to previous.

 

You may find these documents interesting which i have extracted from the link in this post - 

http://www.ifsqn.com...rms/#entry71657

Attached File  cth - Process Determinations for Thermal Processes.pdf   114.86KB   27 downloads

 

Attached File  cth1 - Thermal Process Control Policy.pdf   513.63KB   20 downloads

Attached File  cth2 - Guidelines for Temperature Distribution Studies.pdf   35.98KB   21 downloads

Attached File  cth3 - Protocol for Carrying Out Heat-Penetration Studies.pdf   54.85KB   17 downloads

Attached File  cth4 - Operations Canneries.pdf   118.14KB   20 downloads

Attached File  cth5 - Cannery Retort Survey Report.pdf   9.49KB   16 downloads

Attached File  cth6 - Cannery Retort Survey Report - Detailed.pdf   12.45KB   13 downloads

 

Note the documents are relatively old however the basic theory as presented still looks fairly typical (to me).

The details presumably illustrate the chain of approval for canning operations in Canada. Other countries may implement different routes. Pakistan i have no idea ?

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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