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Has anyone here tried both vertical and horizontal audits?


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#1 Lena Scott

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:47 AM

The management of the company I am affiliated has been fussing about the ineffectiveness of the established audit programme. Because our stage 1 audit recently concluded with 10 critical and 11 noncritical findings, they couldn't understand why we still had that much nonconformities. 

 

Does anyone here tried both vertical and horizontal audits? Which of the 2 is the most effective and appropriate to use?
 

Thanks! :)



#2 YongYM

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:38 AM

To Lena Scott:

 

What type of internal audit? ISO 9001, HACCP, GMP, FSSC 22000 or?

 

Ten 'Critical' findings sound very serious. (How do you classify critical and non-critical findings?) Are all the ten NCR related to the MAJOR violation / failure to the system? Why don't you post all the NCR here for sharing?

 

 

Yong


Edited by YongYM, 30 June 2014 - 06:32 AM.


#3 Avila

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 07:09 AM

Dear Lena,

It seems you should hire a consultant since the situation is very serious (10 critical and 11 major/minor). Overall review on Quality System Manual/HACCP Plan and how they're implemented. If nothing wrong on your systems then try to find out why they can't be implemented effectively (lack of human resources/hardware or no commitment from management ?)

Good luck

Avila


Edited by avila muncar, 28 June 2014 - 07:11 AM.


#4 Charles.C

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 11:05 PM

The management of the company I am affiliated has been fussing about the ineffectiveness of the established audit programme. Because our stage 1 audit recently concluded with 10 critical and 11 noncritical findings, they couldn't understand why we still had that much nonconformities. 

 

Does anyone here tried both vertical and horizontal audits? Which of the 2 is the most effective and appropriate to use?
 

Thanks! :)

 

Dear Lena Scott,

 

If they were 10 critical safety-related findings, I would imagine you have stopped production.?

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 Lena Scott

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:55 AM

To Lena Scott:

 

What type of internal audit? ISO 9001, HACCP, GMP, FSSC 22000 or?

 

 

Yong

 

Hi Yong,

It was a FSSC Stage1 audit, critical findings would lead into a major for the Stage2 audit.

 

 

Dear Lena Scott,

 

If they were 10 critical safety-related findings, I would imagine you have stopped production.?

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

 

Hi Charles,

 

Not yet. Since it was a desk audit, the audit of implementation will be conducted in 3 months.

 

 

I was just wondering if which internal audit type would be more effective for us. We've been using vertical audits against the system. The team haven't tried horizontal audits.



#6 MCIAN

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:41 AM

Hi Lena!

 

OMG, it must be hard for you if you are the MR. It is disheartening to see the management  pointing the fingers to your team.

 

IMO, the fuss should not be on the type of internal audit but really how you interpret the standards: ISO 22000 + PAS 220/ 223

because if you have interpreted them poorly then the implementation will be shallow and the auditor could easily see that.

 

To answer your question, internal audits are usually vertical audits and i have used that effectively with ISO 9001 and BRC IOP. 

Probably you need to focus also on your training both for the whole workforce and the internal auditors.

 

Good luck on your next audits.



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#7 Lena Scott

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 02:59 AM

Hi Lena!

 

OMG, it must be hard for you if you are the MR. It is disheartening to see the management  pointing the fingers to your team.

 

IMO, the fuss should not be on the type of internal audit but really how you interpret the standards: ISO 22000 + PAS 220/ 223

because if you have interpreted them poorly then the implementation will be shallow and the auditor could easily see that.

 

To answer your question, internal audits are usually vertical audits and i have used that effectively with ISO 9001 and BRC IOP. 

Probably you need to focus also on your training both for the whole workforce and the internal auditors.

 

Good luck on your next audits.

 

Hi MCIAN,

 

It was actually our FSTL who had been thinking means on how to make the system work effectively.

 

Thanks for the recommendation! Gee! I think that would mean another IQA. :mellow:






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