29 replies to this topic

[Simon]

As we know ISO 22000:2005 is international and we have had lot's of interest and discussion from new and old members on the standard from all over the world.

I thought it might be intersting at this time to find out from members:

In relation to ISO 22000:2005 what activities are happening in your country and region e.g. how are you involved? Your company? The food industry in your country? National bodies, institutions and the govenment?

Let's have an ISO 22000 round-up from around the globe.

Regards,
Simon

[okido]

Hi Simon,

I participate in a platform for food safety in The Netherlands (it just started) and ISO 22000 was a subject that was discussed recently.
The overall conclusion from about 15 participants that are certified against HACCP, GMP+ or BRC iOP is that the ISO 22000 standard will not be implemented soon in our companies.
There is much overlap between present standards for quality management / food safety systems and ISO 22k. The differences are small, so what will it bring us?

My believe is that the only driving force that can help to spread ISO 22k are customer request's !!!

Okido,

Remember to share good fortune with your friends

[Bak]

Hi Simon,

I participate in a platform for food safety in The Netherlands (it just started) and ISO 22000 was a subject that was discussed recently.
The overall conclusion from about 15 participants that are certified against HACCP, GMP+ or BRC iOP is that the ISO 22000 standard will not be implemented soon in our companies.
There is much overlap between present standards for quality management / food safety systems and ISO 22k. The differences are small, so what will it bring us?

My believe is that the only driving force that can help to spread ISO 22k are customer request's !!!

Okido,

Remember to share good fortune with your friends

Hi Everybody,
Name is Bakary Dieye and I run a Farm in Sénégal .We produce and export fresh melons to Europe (mainly to France at the moment) and are preparing an Eurepgap certification. We are also looking into an ISO 22000 certification.
I can speak about the situation in France where there are mix feelings about the norm. While the auditors and consultants are fairly excited about it (already two books published in french..) large retailers are more cautious since lots of them are already engaged in IFS promotion...the national regulatory authority COFRAC shall endorse the norm and wait for the 20003 to set up the accreditation process.
Nothing yet meaningful is happening in Sénégal.

Cheers

Bak

[Simon]

Hello Bakary, warm greetings from the SDF to you in Sénégal. Thanks for the interesting update on the ISO 22000 situation in your country.

Hope to speak with you some more soon.

Regards,
Simon

[Charles Chew]

Personnally, I believe most regulatory governing bodies over "national food safety standards" are currently studying the implications of this new ISO standard. However, it is probable that the lack of available awareness programs including advance technical seminars in most countries where technical support strength varies may well be the main slack factor.

It helps to know that most major CBs are located in most parts of the globe and are providing the necessary technical know-how. Fact remains much in what "Bak" from Senegal had already mentioned ....that is "what drives it"

Again, with ISO 22000, is there a need for Eurepgap or is it another case of an overlap. IMO, audit cost is not an issue because of the possibility of setting up parallel audits which will basically level out the cost significantly but the core issue here is to determine which standard should represent the benchmark audit.

IMO, a bit more time is needed before a clearer picture can be presented on the impact of ISO 22K. The ultimate release of ISO 22003 will determine or help remove a lot of obstacles and that perhaps will help lead the direction for the future or demise of ISO 22K

[Bak]

Personnally, I believe most regulatory governing bodies over "national food safety standards" are currently studying the implications of this new ISO standard. However, it is probable that the lack of available awareness programs including advance technical seminars in most countries where technical support strength varies may well be the main slack factor.

It helps to know that most major CBs are located in most parts of the globe and are providing the necessary technical know-how. Fact remains much in what "Bak" from Senegal had already mentioned ....that is "what drives it"

Again, with ISO 22000, is there a need for Eurepgap or is it another case of an overlap. IMO, audit cost is not an issue because of the possibility of setting up parallel audits which will basically level out the cost significantly but the core issue here is to determine which standard should represent the benchmark audit.

IMO, a bit more time is needed before a clearer picture can be presented on the impact of ISO 22K. The ultimate release of ISO 22003 will determine or help remove a lot of obstacles and that perhaps will help lead the direction for the future or demise of ISO 22K

Hi there,
There is definitely no overlap between Eurepgap and ISo 22000. Eurepgap scheme is basically a GAP (good agricultural practices) program who shall be managed as a oPRP ...
However I am too a bit anxious about the propects of ISO 22K, hopefully regulatory governing bodies will boost the interest of the private sector...In France AFNOR already have organised a few short seminars. Lets pray for a quick release of the ISO 20003 also...

Hello Bakary, warm greetings from the SDF to you in Sénégal. Thanks for the interesting update on the ISO 22000 situation in your country.

Hope to speak with you some more soon.

Regards,
Simon

Hello Simon,
Thanks for your greetings.Looking forward to our next discussions
Kind Regards

[wdemesa]

Hi there,
There is definitely no overlap between Eurepgap and ISo 22000. Eurepgap scheme is basically a GAP (good agricultural practices) program who shall be managed as a oPRP ...
However I am too a bit anxious about the propects of ISO 22K, hopefully regulatory governing bodies will boost the interest of the private sector...In France AFNOR already have organised a few short seminars. Lets pray for a quick release of the ISO 20003 also...
Hello Simon,
Thanks for your greetings.Looking forward to our next discussions
Kind Regards

Hi this wdemesa from the Philippines- ISO 22K has just been introduced in the country.In on one of the CB's forum, it was featured as one of the newest basis for their certification.The potential for the Standard to be appreciated by a big bulk of groups concerned on food safety is very high.
Thanks for the opportunity to be on line re food safety.

[Simon]

Hi this wdemesa from the Philippines- ISO 22K has just been introduced in the country.In on one of the CB's forum, it was featured as one of the newest basis for their certification.The potential for the Standard to be appreciated by a big bulk of groups concerned on food safety is very high.
Thanks for the opportunity to be on line re food safety.

Thanks for the update from the Philippines wdemesa and a very warm welcome to our discussion forums.

Regards,
Simon

[fed]

Your question

"What's happening in your country/region?, ISO 22000:2005 - A global update"

We are a major UK food producer and absolutely nothing is happening or likely to. We are happy with what we got thank you very much. Stop kidding yourselves.

[Simon]

We are a major UK food producer and absolutely nothing is happening or likely to. We are happy with what we got thank you very much. Stop kidding yourselves.

Hmm not very open minded for a 'major UK food producer', although I note on other threads you did allow the key to turn a little, presumably after your Monday morning coffee. I also noted you complimented the SDF so you're obviously completely forgiven.

Yes possible 22k may not be for the UK, but it's very early days so let's wait and see. After all the notion of a global standard covering the entire food chain is a truly great objective.

Anyway welcome to the forums Fed I hope you can stick around for some more banter.

Regards,
Simon

[Simon]

We have a lot of international members here so come on tell us what is happening in your country? Is ISO 22000 taking off yet?

Simon

[Esther]

As we know ISO 22000:2005 is international and we have had lot's of interest and discussion from new and old members on the standard from all over the world.

I thought it might be intersting at this time to find out from members:

In relation to ISO 22000:2005 what activities are happening in your country and region e.g. how are you involved? Your company? The food industry in your country? National bodies, institutions and the govenment?

Let's have an ISO 22000 round-up from around the globe.

Regards,
Simon

HEllo everybody

I am writting from Spain, from the north-west.

Fithteen days ago I attended a seminar on ISO 22000 organised by a CB and a private organization.
A lot of audience but it seems to me that no one there had read the standard.

But, a few days ago I read in a newspaper a job offer and one of the requeriments was: ISO 22000 knowledge.

From my experience I can say that most of the managers have heard about ISO 22000 but nothing else.

The said CB is the same that has carried aut one or two ISO 22000 certification audits in spanish companies and they have been granted with a " provisional " certificate. Both, CB and companies are waiting for the release of ISO 20003 by the end of 2006 to get the final certificate.

Regards

Esther

[jamesgibb]

Simon,

Coming from the other side of the fence (one of the dreaded auditors! ) I can tell you that we are currently in the final process of UKAS approval for ISO22K.

On Tuesday I'll be undergoing the first stage of a witnessed audit in Turkish Cyprus, It seems that the Cypriot government has decided that the resturants where they eat need to have ISO22K asap.

We've had a few applications from Turkish companies and also Palestinian and Dubian (is this the correct description for a company from Dubai?) Companies

In Malaysia we have mainly had requests for training on the standard (rather than auditor training), and a few enquiries from companies at least 12 months away from requiring certification.

There is also significant interest in Spain and Italy but again for the training rather than the certification.

The general feeling in these countries is the certification issued against the FDIS version is not up to standard - pardon the pun - and awareness is a big issue (as Ester has said) and few people have the expertiese to pass on.

The UK market response was nicley summaries by fed and we are expecting a very low level of interest.

So overall I suppose the market response is a requirement for additional guidance and awareness training with a few organisations under serious customer pressures forging ahead

Having told all our industrial secrets it would be nice to hear from any other CB's

James

[Simon]

I am writing from Spain, from the north-west.

What is the place called where you live Esther it would be nice to know?

But, a few days ago I read in a newspaper a job offer and one of the
requirements was: ISO 22000 knowledge. From my experience I can say that
most of the managers have heard about ISO 22000 but nothing else.

See this is why it's so good to come to the SDF; it could help you to get a job -
anyhow it certainly won't do you any harm to be at the forefront of food safety
standards.

Thanks for update from Spain Esther.

Coming from the other side of the fence (one of the dreaded auditors! ) I can
tell you that we are currently in the final process of UKAS approval for ISO22K.

No that's not true James you're not dreaded; despised maybe but certainly not
dreaded.

Having told all our industrial secrets it would be nice to hear from any other CB's.

You are having a laugh aren't you?

Thanks for the world tour James it was very interesting. Feel free to keep us
updated with the developments your organisation is making with ISO 22000.

Regards,
Simon

[Andy]

Yes possible 22k may not be for the UK, but it's very early days so let's wait and see. After all the notion of a global standard covering the entire food chain is a truly great objective.

Does the UK not lay on planet earth?. But if have heared more statements like TED's one. The biggest problem for the implementation of this global standard are the national standards given by the retailers like BRC or IFS. The HDE (German Retailers Association) was asked by us for a comment on the 22k. The refused even to comment it - the simply negate it.

for the HDE IFS is worth a lot: 1) it means money for the association, 2) the members stick even closer to the assoc. than before. If they would think about the 22k to be an alternative, somebody could ask the retailers about their own QM-systems - and these are really a pitty.

Consequently here in Germany only the big producers which sell world-wide are interested in the ISO 22000, which could replace the 9001, due to the overlaps.

We will wait and see

[Simon]

Does the UK not lay on planet earth?. But if have heared more statements like TED's one. The biggest problem for the implementation of this global standard are the national standards given by the retailers like BRC or IFS. The HDE (German Retailers Association) was asked by us for a comment on the 22k. The refused even to comment it - the simply negate it.

Hi Andy,

The UK and Germany / France are firmly in the hands of BRC and IFS. To be fair they are good and very relevant standards. As has been said before I don't think ISO 22000 will penetrate the retailer supply chain at all in these countries.

Nice to hear the HDE are as cooperative as the BRC.

Simon

[Charles Chew]

There is really a significant difference between business specifics versus country specifics in terms of food safety standards and requirements.

Yes, I am in sync with Simon that both BRC and IFS are extremely good Food Safety Standards but remain only relevant if business is conducted with members of the "retailers group".

However, if a company intends to export into EU or other countries around the globe without conducting businesses with members of the "retailers group" then I think the globally recognized standard of ISO 22000 is indeed the call.

BRC & IFS are therefore confine to a specific business need while the relevancy of ISO 22000 is globally implicative and IMO, given time, the overall influence of its intended objectives would see the better days of its righful place as a harmonized standard and perhaps the eventual demise of private standards.

[Witch]

...the overall influence of its intended objectives would see the better days of its righful place as a harmonized standard and perhaps the eventual demise of private standards.

I hope it will be like this!
For my opinion the iso is the one we need! I do not like the checklist-system of the IFS and BRC. They do even not teach the producers food safety. With the 22K you will have to think yourself and prove!!! the concept.
I like it!

Andy

[jamesgibb]

Simon,

To update you on the ISO22000 in Turkey/Cyprus:

The 2 Companies who have been audited for the Phase 1 visit of the 22K are due for completion at the end of April.

Overall the situation is very good but there are some typical problems (ie both companies) which I will begin a new thread to deal with.

The commitment throughout the area is high but most organisations are a long way from achieving the required standards.

James

[PedroP]

Hello I am Pedro P, from Spain as well. I am from Madrid.
Like Esther I have noticed managers from spanish food companies know the ISO22000 standard, but few people have read it. I am a junior consultant and I made a Quality management Master with SGS in Spain. I made it a course of ISO 22000 for my final project and I went to spanish companies for job interviews, and they know and they are waiting to retailers and big supermarkets opinion and decisions. In Spain, big supermarkets and retailers are using BRC and IFS and external audits.

I suppose people are waiting IS022003.

[Simon]

Hello I am Pedro P, from Spain as well. I am from Madrid.

Hi Pedro, nice to hear from you.

Like Esther I have noticed managers from spanish food companies know the ISO22000 standard, but few people have read it. I am a junior consultant and I made a Quality management Master with SGS in Spain. I made it a course of ISO 22000 for my final project and I went to spanish companies for job interviews, and they know and they are waiting to retailers and big supermarkets opinion and decisions. In Spain, big supermarkets and retailers are using BRC and IFS and external audits.

I suppose people are waiting IS022003.

Yes there is a lot of waiting just now...but I'm sure it pays to be 'on the ball'. And that must be the worlds first Masters disertation on ISO 22000 - well done! Maybe you can share it at some point.

Regards,
Simon

[Esther]

What is the place called where you live Esther it would be nice to know?


See this is why it's so good to come to the SDF; it could help you to get a job -
anyhow it certainly won't do you any harm to be at the forefront of food safety
standards.

Thanks for update from Spain Esther.


No that's not true James you're not dreaded; despised maybe but certainly not
dreaded.


You are having a laugh aren't you?

Thanks for the world tour James it was very interesting. Feel free to keep us
updated with the developments your organisation is making with ISO 22000.

Regards,
Simon

Hi Simon

I am writing from Galicia, La Coruña: the very north-west.

In response to your second observation, visit www.standardcarracedo.es

I am just starting this new aventure on my own that is why the web is still very simple. Fingers crossed!

Regards
Esther

[Simon]

visit www.standardcarracedo.es
I am just starting this new aventure on my own that is why the web is still very simple. Fingers crossed!

Welcome to the wonderful world of web wizardry Esther.

The only thing I see missing from your site is a reference to the SDF.

Regards,
Simon

[APPAJI]

Dear All,
I am from India. Everyone is excited on ISO22k here and few CB are in line for giveing Awareness. But most of Organisations have heard of it but do not know what it means. Few CB are offering un Accredated Certficates, awaiting for ISO22003 to be released to understand it for certification as most of AUDITORS IN THIS FIELD IN INDIA are not from FOOD background qualification wise any work experiance means are from Commercial or Administration, and nothing to do with food . Now only CB have started taking persons with Food qualifications

[Simon]

Dear All,
I am from India. Everyone is excited on ISO22k here and few CB are in line for giveing Awareness. But most of Organisations have heard of it but do not know what it means. Few CB are offering un Accredated Certficates, awaiting for ISO22003 to be released to understand it for certification as most of AUDITORS IN THIS FIELD IN INDIA are not from FOOD background qualification wise any work experiance means are from Commercial or Administration, and nothing to do with food . Now only CB have started taking persons with Food qualifications

Thanks for the update from India Appaji. The shortage of qualified food safety auditors is not restricted to your area; it appears to be global (even in the UK ). A real opportunity for food safety consultants over the next few years methinks.

Regards,

Simon