Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo
- - - - -

Hair & Beard Nets?


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 darrom29

darrom29

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 28 May 2015 - 04:59 PM

Hey everyone.  

 

I work in a small factory (very small) and we produce popcorn.  I moved up from production to SQF/QC and am beginning to work towards a Level 2 certification.

 

A huge issue/argument going on right now is the whole hair net and beard net situation.  Being a small business, people have been here for 10+ years and are used to not having to wear either of these.  

 

I made it rather clear in my GMP Policy that: "A hair net must be worn in the production facility" and "Visible facial hair should be covered with a beard net".  

 

Needless to say, the second it hit the printer, half the staff was in my office saying it's ridiculous.  

 

 

My question is, is there any flexibility on these rules?  Someone brought up wearing a cap instead of a hairnet.  Someone also mentioned allowing facial hair that is less than 1/4" long.

 

I feel like I'm going to just have to be the "bad guy" and enforce the rules I currently have in place.  Though if anyone else has ideas to keep my staff happy, I'd gladly take them!



#2 qalearner

qalearner

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 93 posts
  • 17 thanks
7
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 28 May 2015 - 05:33 PM

I am in a similar situation, smaller place, lots of experienced people but very rigid with what they "have always done". I think that first step is getting senior management to sign on to what you are trying to accomplish. If they have to wear a hairnet so does everyone!



#3 Setanta

Setanta

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 960 posts
  • 227 thanks
117
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Reading: historical fiction, fantasy, Sci-Fi
    Movies
    Gardening
    Birding

Posted 28 May 2015 - 05:36 PM

I advise that you get senior management's support.  If you want SQF, there isn't a lot of leeway.  Please search on this site for the various threads regarding hairnets/beard nets and caps.  http://www.ifsqn.com...grain-facility/


-Setanta                 WeepingAngela.gif

 


#4 darrom29

darrom29

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 28 May 2015 - 08:39 PM

Thanks!  I spoke to management and explained that it's necessary in order to get certification.  We'll probably see some turnover from it, but it'll be worth it in the end.



#5 cherylcolby

cherylcolby

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 1 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 28 May 2015 - 10:26 PM

In the packaging industry we've been wearing hairnets and beardnets for 15 - 20 years.  We don't even touch the food, but it is very possible for hair to attach itself to a container that food will end up in.  Hairnets and beardnets are uncomfortable, but they are necessary part to keep our products clean.  It was tough for us the first year or two, but it's just a part of business today.  Hang in there, it gets easier.



#6 Murae

Murae

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 54 posts
  • 6 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom

Posted 29 May 2015 - 10:20 AM

In the packaging industry we've been wearing hairnets and beardnets for 15 - 20 years.  We don't even touch the food, but it is very possible for hair to attach itself to a container that food will end up in.  Hairnets and beardnets are uncomfortable, but they are necessary part to keep our products clean.  It was tough for us the first year or two, but it's just a part of business today.  Hang in there, it gets easier.

 

We had a similar situation, when first implemented there were a lot of season staff member who were commenting on why change now after not having to have them before, but we were aiming to gain our certification so the management team were behind the change and after a short while it became a non-subject. No doubt once it has been in place for a short while it will become the norm.



#7 Plastic Ducky

Plastic Ducky

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 103 posts
  • 33 thanks
11
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas Texas
  • Interests:Food Safety, SQF Food Packaging, Nutrition, Conspiracy Theories (e.g. the food guide pyramid was corrupted by corporate interests and that's why we Americans are fat), Crypto-currencies, Netflix, Pluto TV, Church of FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monsterism).

Posted 29 May 2015 - 05:22 PM

I also work QC/SQF in the production of flexible plastic packaging. Many workers scoffed at the concept of beard and hair nets in an environment void of food. As long as management gets on board and starts sending people home who aren't in compliance, you will be fine. As for the knuckleheads that will leave due to their refusal to do such a simple task, you will be better off to get rid of them now. If they won't even put a hair net on,  you can bet they will never keep the proper documentation you will need for SQF. Tell them "Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you", and keep moving.



#8 brianweber

brianweber

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 292 posts
  • 113 thanks
28
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Louis, MO
  • Interests:Golf, Scrabble, Food Safety, HACCP, BBQing

Posted 29 May 2015 - 05:44 PM

It was a struggle when I first came here as well. Sometimes being the "bad guy" is not such a bad thing. I explained it like this: The company is growing, there will be changes in order to grow. If they are unwilling to even wear something as simple as a hairnet, maybe they aren't the employees we want to grow with our company. Worked great. :)

 

Best of luck!


Brian


#9 maara91

maara91

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 37 posts
  • 20 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:HACCP, BRC, FOOD SAFETY,

Posted 29 May 2015 - 06:30 PM

 

I also work for a small place, People has got use to the idea of wearing hair nets; however, beard nets are a different story. Our GMP's read like this

 

"Beard-nets must be worn to cover any hairs that extend below the corners of the mouth. Beard net should be worn below the bottom lip, to avoid hand/mouth contact to pull it down to speak etc.  Mustaches must be neat and groomed and not past the corner of the mouth with out wearing a beard net.".

We have passed 2 BRC's enforcing this policy and in a way makes guys lest resistant to the idea of wearing beard nets.



#10 Setanta

Setanta

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 960 posts
  • 227 thanks
117
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Reading: historical fiction, fantasy, Sci-Fi
    Movies
    Gardening
    Birding

Posted 29 May 2015 - 08:10 PM

 

I also work for a small place, People has got use to the idea of wearing hair nets; however, beard nets are a different story. Our GMP's read like this

 

"Beard-nets must be worn to cover any hairs that extend below the corners of the mouth. Beard net should be worn below the bottom lip, to avoid hand/mouth contact to pull it down to speak etc.  Mustaches must be neat and groomed and not past the corner of the mouth with out wearing a beard net.".

We have passed 2 BRC's enforcing this policy and in a way makes guys lest resistant to the idea of wearing beard nets.

 

 

For SQF Level II, however. this is not satisfactory


-Setanta                 WeepingAngela.gif

 


#11 darrom29

darrom29

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 8 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 29 May 2015 - 08:15 PM

For SQF Level II, however. this is not satisfactory

 

From what I've figured out, any visible facial hair requires a beard net.  It's pretty strict.  I'm thinking a lot of my staff will be clean shaven next week  :rofl2:



#12 brianweber

brianweber

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 292 posts
  • 113 thanks
28
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Louis, MO
  • Interests:Golf, Scrabble, Food Safety, HACCP, BBQing

Posted 29 May 2015 - 08:17 PM

My rule on beard nets is 1 days growth.


Brian


#13 Setanta

Setanta

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 960 posts
  • 227 thanks
117
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Reading: historical fiction, fantasy, Sci-Fi
    Movies
    Gardening
    Birding

Posted 29 May 2015 - 08:19 PM

My rule is if I can grab it, it needs a beard net.  :shades:


-Setanta                 WeepingAngela.gif

 


#14 mgourley

mgourley

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 982 posts
  • 783 thanks
104
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Plant City, FL
  • Interests:Cooking, golf, firearms, food safety and sanitation.

Posted 29 May 2015 - 10:20 PM

This all seems silly to me.

Hairnets and beard nets are just common sense. 

You might ask some of your "we have always done it this way" employees if they enjoy having hair in their food when they go out to a restaurant for a meal.

You work in a plant that makes food packaging? You might want to ask your "we have always done it this way" employees if they are cool with losing their jobs because your customers are complaining because their customers are complaining about hair in the package of the food they are consuming.

 

Marshall



#15 SQFconsultant

SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 919 posts
  • 197 thanks
69
Excellent

  • Panama
    Panama
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:We specialize in helping small to mid-sized food, logistic and packaging companies to develop & implement SQF Systems to achieve certification in a relatively short period of time. In addition we offer a low-cost highly effective eConsultant Subscription, SQF Compliance Reviews and Internal Auditor Training. Don't let our location throw you off - Our market is the United States.
    Call us to discuss your needs 800-546-1452

Posted 01 June 2015 - 04:41 PM

Interesting replies to your comments.

 

You said in part:

 

"My question is, is there any flexibility on these rules? "

 

My question is - how did you establish the rule to begin with, what is the basis for including this in your GMPs?  

 

In otherwords, what is your backup - consultant or documentation on the subject always helps for instance.

 

Here's a funny for you - I worked with a harvester a couple of months ago and we put a requirement in the GMPs for their employees, contractors and visitors that hair nets were required as well as beard nets for any facial hair.  

 

Once the program was implemented and had been running for a couple of weeks I got a phone call from a production employee at the facility and he said to me and I quote "The QA Manager told me that you are the reason why I have to wear a hair net.... so, tell me mister consultant, why!?!"

 

I simply answered that when I take a pint of their shucked oysters out of my refrigerator to fry them up I only want oysters and known of his hair in it.... yup, that did the trick.

 

So the simple answer would be to ask your employees if they like hair with their popcorn, most won't.


Warm regards,

 

Glenn Oster

 

SQF Certification & Implementation Consultant

Serving clients in: USA, Centro America & Caribbean Islands

International Toll-Free: 800-546-1452

USA Skype Number: 772-646-4115

 

www.GlennOsterConsulting.com


#16 herb b

herb b

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 19 posts
  • 6 thanks
1
Neutral

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore, Hon.
  • Interests:Things that go fast! Things that are complex. Food!

Posted 02 June 2015 - 03:14 PM

Another thing to beware of: exceptions!  What about the guy with the shaved head? wear a hair net, no exceptions...Someone will always try to wiggle out of it.  1/4 inch long facial hair? who will measure it!  If I can see it, wear a net.  Reduce any area that it is ok not to wear one, someone will always walk through the wrong area at the wrong time..

 

good luck...remember no exceptions!



#17 Maretha

Maretha

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 12 posts
  • 3 thanks
0
Neutral

  • South Africa
    South Africa

Posted 03 June 2015 - 01:20 PM

THE MOST DANGEROUS PHRASE IS: Because we've always done it this way. 

You'll have to put your foot down, get your standard to back you up, and tell everyone why they need to wear the masks. And simply state, "Without your cooperation to comply with the food safety standard, we won't get certified!" As simple as that. We got used to being hard asses really quickly getting everyone to cooperate..

 

Good luck!

M



#18 inquiringminds

inquiringminds

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 1 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 03 June 2015 - 02:02 PM

Does the size of a food processing facility determine the degree of food safety? The facts are what they are....you process food and that requires food safety controls. I have been thru BRC and a ball cap is NOT considered a hair restraint control. Ball caps are dirty and BRC required a hair net over the ball cap. Providing a company issued sanitary hair net is control. Yes, your struggle will getting management's support since it will be a culture change. The 1/4" beard regulation leaves it open to interpretation. Your 1/4" and their 1/4" I guarantee will be different. Choose "any visible facial hair must be restraint", eliminates that grey area.



#19 FurFarmandFork

FurFarmandFork

    QA Manager/FS Blogger

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,091 posts
  • 490 thanks
92
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:25 PM

There is a great pathogen prevalence study from the 60's that helps establish a tenuous link between loose hair and food safety. May be more compelling than "it might happen".

 

http://furfarmandfor...-wear-hairnets/


QA Manager and food safety blogger in Oregon, USA.

 

Interested in more information on food safety and science? Check out Furfarmandfork.com for more insights!

Subscribe to have one post per week delivered straight to your inbox.

 


#20 jcieslowski

jcieslowski

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 135 posts
  • 48 thanks
12
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:36 PM

All food safety benefits aside (which seems odd, right), NO auditor is going to be satisfied with no hair / beard nets.

 

SQF, in particular, is big on MANAGEMENT COMMITMENT and having employees ALLOWED to break the rules is likely to result in loss of points in multiple areas because of the management commitment part.

 

In short - get the owner to tell people to put on a hair and beard net or get out.



#21 jcieslowski

jcieslowski

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 135 posts
  • 48 thanks
12
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:37 PM

My rule is if I can grab it, it needs a beard net.  :shades:

 

This is legit my rule.  And not with nails, with the fleshy part of the finger.   That's what I tell people who ask me "is this too long?" or "it's only a day's growth".   "Well can you grab it?"  If so, it needs to be covered.  

 

And YES, I've said that to women with mustaches too.



#22 adelk2202

adelk2202

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 6 posts
  • 1 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:09 PM

Ah the good ol' "But we've always done it this way!" excuse. That is always a fun one to battle. I agree with what everyone else has already said. Make sure to get upper management on board 100%. If they aren't on board you are going to have an awful time of it. Good luck!



#23 bensmith007

bensmith007

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 27 posts
  • 5 thanks
3
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:36 PM

My 2 cents worth on the 'we always did it this way' gripe-

 

In my GMP training I now refer to GMP's as cGMP's then go into a bit about why the 'current' is important- essentially things change, they don't stay the same. Examples would be new legislation- we now have to do a bunch of things differently to comply with FSMA, and new technology- we need to change our procedures to accommodate that.

 

I use that moment to tell everyone to get used to the fact that we are always going to be changing our food safety policies and that anything could change in the future.

 

I also put the cGMP bit up from CFR 117 (the relevant legislation for non-US people reading this) to prove that I'm not making it up!

 

Also you may want to play the approved supplier angle- if we want to continue supplying this company then we must comply- if we don't, we lose that business and then all of our jobs are at risk!

 

Do you explain the micro risk from hair- i.e. the rationale behind why we use nets in the first place?

 

Good luck!






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

EV SSL Certificate