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A few snippets of new information on ISO 22000.


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Simon

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:07 AM

29 Certification Bodies started out on the UKAS Accreditation route however many of these have pulled out and an estimated 3-5 will be Accredited some time towards the end of March 2006.

Don't buy ISO 22004 right now! The current version is not a very helpful document; for example it doesn't tell you what a prp is. I am advised to wait for the next revision which will be available later in 2006.

There is more interest in ISO 22000 than first perceived in the UK and from all elements of the food supply chain; including packaging and including some major global players. Some of the retailers are very interested. I have it on good authority that the BRC and IFS Standards will be defunct within five years.

Interesting stuff.

Regards,
Simon


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Charles Chew

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:51 AM

29 Certification Bodies started out on the UKAS Accreditation route however many of these have pulled out and an estimated 3-5 will be Accredited some time towards the end of March 2006.


Simon, - I was aware of this issue as early as Mid-February but thought it was not appropriate to mention it here however it is true that there are some really big names out there who have not been able to close-out their NCRs after the witness audit for whatever the technical reasons.

This resulted in the delay of issuing certificates under the pilot scheme and also other vital "matters" but the delay is apparently capped until the end of march. All those that were subject to audits under the unapproved audit checklist will have to be re-audited and the CBs would have to bear the cost thereon.

Glad to know that your information is leading to what I had always been suspecting - the ultimate defunct of BRC & IFS and other private standards.

Cheers,
Charles Chew
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Simon

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 11:06 AM

Simon, - I was aware of this issue as early as Mid-February but thought it was not appropriate to mention it here however it is true that there are some really big names out there who have not been able to close-out their NCRs after the witness audit for whatever the technical reasons.

Come on mate freedom of speech, public interest and all that. Tasty nuggets with no names, nor pack drill can't hurt.

Glad to know that your information is leading to what I had always been suspecting - the ultimate defunct of BRC & IFS and other private standards.

At this stage its all ifs, buts and maybes, but the scenario could be these standards become industry specific GMP's as part of ISO 22000 Certification.

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jamesgibb

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 03:29 PM

Simon,

Coming from the Certification body perspective I have the following to add:

Firstly, Thank Goodness! but we've (meaning me) haven't been witnessed yet by UKAS, if you see the topic I recently posted regarding avoiding problems you will appreciate why the audits have been pushed back.

I have heard via meetings with other CB's that the UKAS auditors are more interested in selling BRC training courses than ensuring the CB's are doing their jobs correctly.

From what I have heard the entire pilot sheme is a mess, the UKAS desk study was appauling, we had 1 finding raised, during our internal audit we identified many more errors in our documents overlooked by UKAS.

The auditor resource (UKAS) means that when the pilot scheme began 15 months ago there were 29 CB's, each needed to be witnessed auditing at least twice plus a head office audit and a desk study.

The average time for a ISO22000 audit is about 4 days (for the ones witnessed)

29 on site time ((4 x 29) x 2) + 29 head office audits (2 x 29) + 29 desk studies (29) = approximatley 290 man days (excluding travel), as far as I am aware UKAS have 2 auditors - 145 man days each out of the office excluding any travel.

As these people have other roles and tasks as well fitting 29 CB's into a 14 month(ish) pilot was never going to happen, this has been compounded by the fact that noone was ready to be audited against ISO22000 until late 2005

Issuing the rules for accreditation months after the issue of the standard also seems to be crazy :uhm:, We have written our systems to meet the drafts of ISO22003 and ISO17021 but we won't know if the systems are OK until after we have (hopefully) been accredited.

Give it a year and everything will be sorted out - as many people have already said we're all waiting for 22003. I have heard on the grapevine that a CB with a 3 letter (but only 2 letters) name has been issuing quotations for ISO22000 with a UKAS logo on them so perhaps they have been accredited and the UKAS website not updated? :yeahrite:

All I can say is thank heavens that UKAS aren't running the Wembley stadium project or you'd be going to Cardiff for the next 10 years!

James

P.S. - our target for 22K accreditation is end June/early July 2006, I'll keep you posted


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Simon

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:18 PM

Why do you think so many CB's have fallen by the wayside on 22k James; is it because the accreditation process is so tough, or are there other factors at work?


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jamesgibb

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:10 AM

Simon,

I'm not sure too many have, I think most have had difficulty meeting the 31-1-2006 deadline for the pilot programme,

We couldn't meet the deadline due to ne clients to audit,

Only the CB's with strong consultancy links have been able to groom clients for witnessing,

The rest of us have to wait for clients to be ready

From what I have heard most CB's are still working toward accreditation but outside the pilot scheme

James


"arguing with an auditor is like wrestling with a pig in mud, eventually you realise that the pig enjoys it"




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