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Simon

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:26 PM

Just had a thought; there are loads of Unaccredited Certification Bodies out there who (some say) have devalued the ISO 9000 certification process. It would be wrong to say an accredited cert is better than an unaccredited one in every case, but at least you know accredited CB's are regulated and work to defined protocols.

What's to stop the same situation happening with ISO 22000?

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Simon


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jamesgibb

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 09:42 AM

Simon,

surley the answer is simple: you as the consumers don't accept this certification, then there will be no customers for the unaccredited registration.

With the WHO and EU rules on preventing trade barriers meaning that it's not possible to stop unaccredited certification bodies issuing certificates, its down to everyone to provide a united front of "It's not acceptable!"

How many UK supermarkets accept that you have a BRC system but it's not checked by an approved body?

It is then down to the approved CB's to do the job correctly and actually add value to the FSMS's (as well as robustly auditing them).

James


"arguing with an auditor is like wrestling with a pig in mud, eventually you realise that the pig enjoys it"

Simon

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:17 AM

Surely the answer is simple: you as the consumers don't accept this certification, then there will be no customers for the unaccredited registration.

I doubt some consumers would know the difference and I suppose it becomes more difficult to control when the Standard is global. Let's say a customer in the US asks me if I'm ISO 22000 Registered and I send them a nicely designed professional looking (unaccredited) certificate with maybe a fancy crest and some Latin verbiage. It would fool many - not everyone is as knowledgeable as on the SDF. So there is really nothing to stop them.

How many UK supermarkets accept that you have a BRC system but it's not checked by an approved body?

Good point - does anyone know of any unaccredited cert bodies carrying out BRC Audits. I suppose being smaller and more localised it's easier to control.

It would be useful to have a list of all country Accreditation Bodies.

Regards,
Simon

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jamesgibb

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:50 AM

It would be useful to have a list of all country Accreditation Bodies.


Simon,

http://www.compad.co...icles&artId=145

This is a list of all IAF (International Accreditation Forum) Members, these are the AB's who have international recognition, you will have to check the IAF site to see when a new agreement is put in place for ISO22003, currently any body who has signed up to the Multi-lateral Agreement for guide 62 will be able to accredit a CB for ISO22000 which will be internationally recognised. To find out if the AB is OK click on their individual name and see the date they were adminted to the MLA for QMS, if they were not then they will not be internationally acknowledged for 22k as well as 9k

Other Accreditation bodies will probabley offer this but buyer beware, the certification will only be recognised within the AB's "sphere of influence" and not worldwide.

James

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okido

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:12 PM

Hi Simon,

Why should we stop something from happening?
The ISO 22k should proof its value before you can devalue it.
Up till now the value is that it invoked a lot of discussion that give new insights. This is an important factor to improve food safety management systems. Do something with your newly gained insights!!! :thumbup:
Devaluation can only be stopped if you make something or have something that is rare or unique. This contradicts with what ISO standards are mend to be, widely spread and used, so just by making an ISO standard the devaluation is already pre programmed. Unaccredited CB just speed up this inevitable process.
After some time we will develop something new that is again perceived as 'valuable'. Regulations and protocols cannot stop natural evolution en entrepreneurs and if we apply our newly gained insights we only benefit from it!!!


Have a nice day, Okido



Simon

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 01:07 PM

An interesting thought for the weekend - thank you Okido.

Simon


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APPAJI

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 04:50 PM

Dear All,
I have also come accross Unaccredated Certificate and most of the organisations do not know the differance. Many organisations also fall for these Unaccredated Certifications as the cost is low and the Role of guiding lies in proper education by Us- Consultants and awareness by CB.

I agree that the sooner the accredation for ISO22k starts better it is.

APPAJI






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