17 replies to this topic

[Tomvegqa]

Hi All, 

 

I have been given a task linking to a promotion within a vegetable processing factory that I work in and was looking to get some advice if possible. 

 

There are some basic questions that I want to confirm with someone with a bit more knowledge and experience than myself. (some of them may seem very basic)

 

1) Explain what is a QCP, and how it can be used in a process (any example will help)

2) How would you implement a QCP ?

3) What is a QAS and what information would it contain?

 

There is a lot more to this assignment but confirming these points would help alot! 

[Charles.C]

Hi All, 

 

I have been given a task linking to a promotion within a vegetable processing factory that I work in and was looking to get some advice if possible. 

 

There are some basic questions that I want to confirm with someone with a bit more knowledge and experience than myself. (some of them may seem very basic)

 

1) Explain what is a QCP, and how it can be used in a process (any example will help)

2) How would you implement a QCP ?

3) What is a QAS and what information would it contain?

 

There is a lot more to this assignment but confirming these points would help alot! 

 

Hi Tom,

 

What is QAS ?

 

Can you confirm the FS Standard involved since afaik BRC does not use the item QCP ? (or QAS whatever that is).

.

[Tomvegqa]

I believe it stands for Quality Assurance Specification. We work to the BRC standard but this is an internal quality management system for a customer.

 

Thanks, 

 

T.Fry

[Tomvegqa]

This is were my trouble has been. Its very hard trying to define these correctly without knowing which customer or standard we will be working too. Its a test to see how we initially respond I think.

[Tomvegqa]

Could be Quality Assurance System. Still very unsure.

[Charles.C]

Hi Tom,

 

Indeed, the definition/meaning  may well vary with the context. If that was the test, i think you have passed.

 

afaik, of the "top 4" GFSI recognised Standards, QCP is not used by any except possibly IFS. (CQP is used by SQF ???)

IIRC QCP is used by Codex.

I can not remember ever (formally) encountering QAS in either of the above contexts (or anywhere else in a FS-standard context).

 

Maybe someone is (slightly) having you on ? Or, as you said, there is a "psychological" element ?

 

you can find one definition for QCP here -

 

http://www.foodindus...t-details?Id=65

Quality Control Point – A Quality Control Point, commonly known as a QCP or CQP (!!!) is a point, step or procedure at which controls can be applied and a food quality hazard can be prevented, eliminated or reduced to acceptable levels.

Quality Point or QP – Any step at which product or process quality factors can be controlled.

 

here is another (different) definition (Woolworths, Australia) -

QUALITY CONTROL POINT – Any point in a process where loss of control leads to a consumer complaint or product return, and occurs when the product is not within specification

.

[peeviewonder]

For my industry (dairy products) an example of a quality control point would be a quality measurement that must be met prior to the product moving on to the next step in production. Sort of like a critical control point, but it does not have to do with product safety, only with product quality. An example would be that whole milk must have a butterfat of at least 3.25%. I used to work somewhere that was going for SQF level 3, and QCPs are a big part of that. Perhaps you might get some info posting over in the SQF section? I would look up the SQF code and read through that. I am not at an SQF plant now, so I am not super up to date with any of the new changes. I hope this helps somewhat. Good luck.

[Charles.C]

For my industry (dairy products) an example of a quality control point would be a quality measurement that must be met prior to the product moving on to the next step in production. Sort of like a critical control point, but it does not have to do with product safety, only with product quality. An example would be that whole milk must have a butterfat of at least 3.25%. I used to work somewhere that was going for SQF level 3, and QCPs are a big part of that. Perhaps you might get some info posting over in the SQF section? I would look up the SQF code and read through that. I am not at an SQF plant now, so I am not super up to date with any of the new changes. I hope this helps somewhat. Good luck.

 

Hi peevie,

 

I had previously mentally agreed with you but QCP gets no hits in SQF Code 7.2. Seemingly abandoned.

[FurFarmandFork]

Hi peevie,

 

I had previously mentally agreed with you but QCP gets no hits in SQF Code 7.2. Seemingly abandoned.

 

It never shows up in the code. But because level 3 says to come up with a quality plan "following HACCP principals", it's common to establish control points as "Critical Quality Points" or "Quality Control Points" when they're not a food safety issue but part of your level 3 plan and you want to differentiate them in your process flow.

[peeviewonder]

Hi peevie,

 

I had previously mentally agreed with you but QCP gets no hits in SQF Code 7.2. Seemingly abandoned.

LOL. I am way out of the game. I got my SQF practitioner training 3? years ago. Thanks for checking up.

[Charles.C]

It never shows up in the code. But because level 3 says to come up with a quality plan "following HACCP principals", it's common to establish control points as "Critical Quality Points" or "Quality Control Points" when they're not a food safety issue but part of your level 3 plan and you want to differentiate them in your process flow.

 

Hi 3F,

 

I’ve never been a SQF user but I have always found the (seeming) SQF fascination with “control points” rather strange and sort of anti-HACCP.

(It’s of course a well-known distinction between Codex haccp and  NACMCF’s interpretation).

 

Although SQF’s “QCP” is apparently user-invented (unlike CQP), after some studying of the SQF Code/NACMCF I can propose a non-user’s definition for SQF-QCP –

 

“Any PROCESS step at which biological, chemical, or physical QUALITY factors can be controlled”.

 

So this adds one more to the options in Post 6.

 

One difficulty with above def. seems to be  “When is a process step not associated with a QCP ?” (when there's a CQP ??)

 

I suggest both BRC and SQF have some “baggage”  in their “Food Safety Codes”.

[FurFarmandFork]

The best discussions I've had with auditors about the actual "intent" of the level 3 quality risk assessment is to take (non food safety) customer complaint data, pareto the issues, and make your top customer "concerns" specifically called out in your plan as high risk and plug them into the "impact" scale to determine whether a CCP-like process step is occurring there, and establish monitoring/documentation/corrective actions/etc.

 

Version 8 seems to suggest that rather than just the risk assessment step, where you might end up with no QCP's at all (*opens can of worms*), they want to see action associated; the easiest way being to demonstrate that you actually placed product on hold for rework or disposal due to a quality issue, even though the product was both legal and safe. IMO This is what that SQF shield should imply. That the level 3 manufacturer using the seal would rather throw away "perfectly good" product than send you something inferior as a one-off.

[Tomvegqa]

I believe peeviewonder is on the right track here. 

 

After talking to more of my colleagues I have decided to go ahead with Quality control point and have been able to create an example of this from the product in question. For example the products QCP for the roasting process would be how much product is in the tray and the length of cook time which determines the texture and colour of the product. Obviously the CCP for cooking will be met but I believe the quality of the product is more what this task is aimed toward rather than the food safety side. 

 

As for QAS, I am still very unsure what this is. I have found a few more options - Quality assurance specification? Quality assurance procedure? Or what I am going to go with is Quality attribute sheet. I believe no matter what this stands for it is basically going to be very similar to an IPS (internal processing specification) only with attributes towards the quality rather than the food safety. Although these will be fairly similar i.e. Goods intake checks, cooking temperature and time ect. Im going to include more points such as evenly mixing the product and the amount placed into the cooking tray to ensure the right texture and taste.

 

I wish I could see or download an example of a QAS or QCP sheet to understand but cannot find a thing on the internet! 

[Charles.C]

Hi Tom,

 

Personally, i would either (a) ask yr customer as to whose system of QCP is relevant or (b) select a "standardised" (or standardisable) definition to work from.

The (b) choice afaik points exclusively to SQF within the GFSI recognised collection.

 

Yr customer may well ultimately respond that "Sorry, i was thinking of CQP" !!

 

There are examples of SQF-QCPs in various submitted posts containing SQF "Food Quality Plans" for the SQF Level3 standard. afai can see It's a numerically unlimited opportunity.

 

IMO "QAS" can mean any kind of Quality Assurance System you wish to choose. ISO 9001 would be a nice, simple, starting point.

 

@3F - For starters, why the heck don't SQF put it in their Glossary if they want people to use it ? (I haven't checked SQF8 ?)

[FurFarmandFork]

 

 

@3F - For starters, why the heck don't SQF put it in their Glossary if they want people to use it ? (I haven't checked SQF8 ?)

 

 

Because level 3 was an afterthought in version 7, I think they just thought a quality oriented risk assessment sounded cool. CQP is an industry convention I've seen periodically. V8 they're taking level 3 more seriously, who knows how "prescribed" it will be, or if it will be an extension of management commitment to non FS issues.

[Charles.C]

Because level 3 was an afterthought in version 7, I think they just thought a quality oriented risk assessment sounded cool. CQP is an industry convention I've seen periodically. V8 they're taking level 3 more seriously, who knows how "prescribed" it will be, or if it will be an extension of management commitment to non FS issues.

 

Hi 3F,

 

Actually level3 goes back to, at least, SQF2000, 6th ed (2008).

 

SQF are notoriously resistant to "updating."

[FurFarmandFork]

Hi 3F,

 

Actually level3 goes back to, at least, SQF2000, 6th ed (2008).

 

SQF are notoriously resistant to "updating."

Whoops, got caught speaking to something I didn't actually know...  Thanks Charles!

*political spin* I meant that it always felt like an afterthought in the code (and in the audit). I wasn't in the industry when 6 was out.

[Charles.C]

Whoops, got caught speaking to something I didn't actually know...  Thanks Charles!

*political spin* I meant that it always felt like an afterthought in the code (and in the audit). I wasn't in the industry when 6 was out.

 

Hi 3F,

 

No problemo. I'm possibly being a bit hard on SQF since their free Guidance material is a truly impressive resource and must initially have required an enormous amount of work. I've often wondered who actually did it.