22 replies to this topic

[Donie]

Hi Everyone!

 

Earlier this morning me and our Plant Manager talked about HACCP. She told me that it is not necessary to have training in order to identify hazards. We just need the CCP decision tree to identify those hazards. I am new to the company that's why I don't know what to say.

 

My question is, would a decision tree suffice our needs to identify CCP's, PRP's, oPRP's ? None of us has undergone a HACCP training yet, even our plant Manager that's why I wonder if she really know what is she saying.

 

can anyone help to enlighten me? 

 

Thanks a lot!

[beautiophile]

Hello,

IMO, your PM was right. The importance is that staffs have knowledge, awareness of FS and ability to identify the risks.

BRC/IoP also requires that you have HARM not specific HACCP. However, there's Clause 2.1.2: "The multidisciplinary team shall have a designated team leader who shall be suitably trained and able to demonstrate competence and experience of hazard and risk analysis.". When she, a HARM leader, hasn't got a HACCP certificate, she must prove her competence with other equivalent diplomas, certificate, training records and etc.. 

[Donie]

Hello,

 

Thanks for your reply! In packaging we use HARM but it is still equivalent/same to HACCP. IMO it would not be easy to conduct HACCP with just a Decision tree on our hand. If we conduct HACCP without training and with our own knowledge only, then it might go wrong. We have no training, no one here knows how to do it but we're planning to ask an employee of our sister company to mentor us soon, if time permits.

 

Question, How are we going to demonstrate competence and experience if in the first place we haven't been trained yet? I would also want to ask what trainings might be an equivalent of HACCP/HARM training so we could look into the trainings of our employees who could be qualified to become our HARM Team Leader? Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it

 

best regards!

[beautiophile]

Yes, you can use HACCP as your HARM but your HARM does not have to be HACCP. BRC for food clearly states HACCP but BRC/IoP doesn't.

A CCP could be determined through severity, likelihood and detectability of hazards, not necessary by decision tree (as in HACCP).

In your case, if you choose HACCP, HACCP training is obligated. Like BRC, it's voluntary but you adopt it, you must follow all its requirements. 

Regards.

[Donie]

Hi,

 

May I ask what's the difference between HACCP and HARM? Thanks!

[redfox]

Hello Donie,

 

There plenty of institution that are catering training of HACCP and food safety related training and seminars. if you're in PH, here are some names: SGS, PTTC, and some some private individuals who have licensed to conduct the training.

 

It is like driving the car which you don't know how to drive, you know that you have to step on the brake so as not to hit the post, but since you don't have the skills and training, it could be a disaster.

 

Start inquiring and acquiring for training and research more. Had to burn the eyebrows.

 

regards,

redfox

[Donie]

Yes, you can use HACCP as your HARM but your HARM does not have to be HACCP. BRC for food clearly states HACCP but BRC/IoP doesn't.

A CCP could be determined through severity, likelihood and detectability of hazards, not necessary by decision tree (as in HACCP).

In your case, if you choose HACCP, HACCP training is obligated. Like BRC, it's voluntary but you adopt it, you must follow all its requirements. 

Regards.

 

You may refer to http://www.ifsqn.com...haccp-training/ post #5

 

Thanks!

[beautiophile]

Thanks for the reference.

However, keep in mind that BRC/IoP is not solely dedicated for food, BRC/IoP could be adopted in other high-hygiene industries such as cosmetic. Food people often strongly stick to HACCP and are confused by HARM in BRC/IoP. It states HARM so that BRC/IoP can get wider application. In that logic, not-using HACCP is not a major/critical non-conformity in BRC/IoP even for food packaging.

[Donie]

Hello Donie,

 

There plenty of institution that are catering training of HACCP and food safety related training and seminars. if you're in PH, here are some names: SGS, PTTC, and some some private individuals who have licensed to conduct the training.

 

It is like driving the car which you don't know how to drive, you know that you have to step on the brake so as not to hit the post, but since you don't have the skills and training, it could be a disaster.

 

Start inquiring and acquiring for training and research more. Had to burn the eyebrows.

 

regards,

redfox

 

 

Hi Redfox,

 

Thanks! I already searched and inquired for HACCP training providers such as FoodSHAP, DNVL, SGS, AIB,NSI Training and Consultancy Center, and Neville Clarke, they are costly, and the management. We have an option of asking a trained employee of our sister company to mentor us. Hopefully she'll be able to train us.

 

Regards,

Donie

[redfox]

Hello Donnie,

 

For a starter it is better. But I suggest, you have to go to training for an updates specially on regulations and guidelines. As you go along with food safety jobs, there you can see how broader the scope and related to food safety and the works to be done.

 

regards,

redfox

[Donie]

Hi Redfox,

 

As of now, the budget for our training is not yet approved by the management because it costs a lot that is why we looked for another option but I really hope that our HARM team would go under a training from one of these licensed training providers. Soon.

 

Regards,

 

Donie

[Gerard H.]

Hi Donie,

 

Yes, I agree with Redfox, that it's better to follow a training with the whole team and the key influencers of your HACCP system. So the plant manager as well. That allows that everybody speaks the same language and understands the seriousness of food safety.

 

A training gives you the necessary tools to build a correct and more scientifically based HACCP system. You need that, to control the food safety risks of your product.

 

Also in he future you will need to update the trainings, as your HACCP system evolves. You will surely include, or focalize on, other topics.

 

It will be smart, if you could adapt the training to your company.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gerard Heerkens

[Scampi]

The training is essential whether it start with mentoring or actual formal training. A decision tree will help but unless you understand the entire process, you could miss vital risks in the hazard analysis. BRC and SQF both require a HACCP trained person as part of the food safety team if you are looking for 3rd party certification down the line.

 

There are some free HACCP training power point presentations etc. available on the internet...I suggest you start researching before you go too far down the rabbit hole

[will.merrill]

I'm interested in a group training webinar... I cannot tell if the webinar will support training multiple people or if it is designed for only one...

please advise.

 

thanks!

 

will

[Donie]

The training is essential whether it start with mentoring or actual formal training. A decision tree will help but unless you understand the entire process, you could miss vital risks in the hazard analysis. BRC and SQF both require a HACCP trained person as part of the food safety team if you are looking for 3rd party certification down the line.

 

There are some free HACCP training power point presentations etc. available on the internet...I suggest you start researching before you go too far down the rabbit hole

 

Hi,

 

I agree with you Scampi, training is essential to HACCP. Even we have HACCP decision tree, and other related document templates for HACCP, still we will fail to do it correctly. We really need someone to guide us through mentoring and training so that in case of misconceptions, we'll be corrected.

 

I already downloaded a video about HACCP. I'll search for powerpoint presentation etc. as an additional tool for us to understand HACCP while we're not trained yet. A big thanks to you SCAMPI

 

Best regards,

 

Donie

[Scampi]

Another member was kind enough to post these in another thread

 HACCP Training-Spanish (1).pptx   93.93KB   16 downloads

 HACCP Training.pptx   70.76KB   51 downloads

[Scampi]

https://www.22000-to...t-is-haccp.html

http://food-safety-t...se-online-free/

https://safetybugtra...our-easy-steps/

 

I have not looked at these, but may also be of help. The last one is supported by the UK governemnt

[inamfst]

Hi 

HACCP training is essential, however not mandatory.

Auditor will very easily be satisfied with the training records rather proofing with other kind of relevant training and showing skills at work place.

Definitely without skills and talks auditor will get feedback, however training will bring all on same understanding level and understanding of HACCP.

With classroom training whole team will be able to discuss the whole process from HACCP point of view and after the training everyone will take serious interest to participate in HACCP /Food safety involvements.

Kind regards

 

Muhammad Inamuddin

[Scampi]

Hi 

HACCP training is essential, however not mandatory.

Auditor will very easily be satisfied with the training records rather proofing with other kind of relevant training and showing skills at work place.

Definitely without skills and talks auditor will get feedback, however training will bring all on same understanding level and understanding of HACCP.

With classroom training whole team will be able to discuss the whole process from HACCP point of view and after the training everyone will take serious interest to participate in HACCP /Food safety involvements.

Kind regards

 

Muhammad Inamuddin

Sorry but that is not true---to quote SQF

 

Training that meets the guidelines outlined in the Food and Agriculture Organization’s

CODEX Alimentarius Commission. Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point (HACCP)

System and Guidelines for its Application – Annex to CAC/RCP 1 – 1969, Rev. 4-

2003), – “A system, which identifies, evaluates and controls hazards which are

significant for food safety.” And this training shall be:

1. Recognized as a HACCP training course used extensively in a country.

2. Administered and delivered by an institution recognized as a food safety training

center of excellence.

3. A minimum of two days (16 hours) in duration, or equivalent.

4. The acquired knowledge of the candidate shall be assessed as part of the training

program.

[inamfst]

 

Sorry but that is not true---to quote SQF

 

Training that meets the guidelines outlined in the Food and Agriculture Organization’s

CODEX Alimentarius Commission. Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point (HACCP)

System and Guidelines for its Application – Annex to CAC/RCP 1 – 1969, Rev. 4-

2003), – “A system, which identifies, evaluates and controls hazards which are

significant for food safety.” And this training shall be:

1. Recognized as a HACCP training course used extensively in a country.

2. Administered and delivered by an institution recognized as a food safety training

center of excellence.

3. A minimum of two days (16 hours) in duration, or equivalent.

4. The acquired knowledge of the candidate shall be assessed as part of the training

program.

 

Thanks for correction, however I did not find point number 1 to 4 in Annex to CAC/RCP 1

[Charles.C]

Hi Everyone!

 

Earlier this morning me and our Plant Manager talked about HACCP. She told me that it is not necessary to have training in order to identify hazards. We just need the CCP decision tree to identify those hazards. I am new to the company that's why I don't know what to say.

 

My question is, would a decision tree suffice our needs to identify CCP's, PRP's, oPRP's ? None of us has undergone a HACCP training yet, even our plant Manager that's why I wonder if she really know what is she saying.

 

can anyone help to enlighten me? 

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Hi Donie,

 

Training is a very general term (think OJT). So is "Decision Tree".

Yr Plant Manager may be highly technically qualified/self-taught HACCP expert and have many years of experience with audited HACCP Systems. Additionally you may have a very simple Process from a HACCP POV.

 

However consider this standard reference source (NACMCF) for implementing traditional HACCP  -

 

https://www.fda.gov/.../ucm2006801.htm

 

If you read it, you will see that yr Plant manager is probably highly (perhaps dangerously) over-optimistic if she believes that the only requirement to determine CCPs is a Decision Tree of the kind typically used for HACCP.

 

So, offhand, i would suggest that, at least in this case, some additional "training" is required.

[redfox]

Hello Donie,

 

There are many methodologies, decision trees, some only have CCPs, others have oPRPs. Which sometimes, you  find difficult to differentiate the two terms, so much so if don't have trainings about HACCP. Self-taught might can be, but your progress maybe slow. Besides, auditor will look for a HACCP training especially from the HACCP team leader.

 

regards,

redfox

[Donie]

Hi Everyone!

 

I wasn't able to reply in this conversation for a few days because we went to our team Building. By the way, thanks to all of you! your comments and clarifications are very helpful for me and to our HACCP Team for us to increase our understanding on HACCP. However, we will still seek for HACCP training and mentoring so we could gain experience in HACCP. Thanks to all of you again!

 

Best regards,

 

Donie