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HinaAmmar

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 10:21 PM

Hi All,

We are a restaurant and serve products either cooked on flame or in oven.

Pasta is cooked over flame and temp is monitored by probe thermometer.However, pizza, chicken wings, calamari etc are baked at 371C.

Cooking record shows oven display temp for few items like pizza(371). However, chicken wings and other seafood etc are manually probe to check core temp.(75 or above)

My concern is that should I keep critical limit as 75C for all items and use probe thermometer to monitor temp OR should set different limit for baking of Pizza and rely on calibrated display to avoid probing all times?

Hope I was able to explain it clearly....



inamfst

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 03:59 AM

Salam Hina,

Its not necessary to have temperature as CCP.

Working and training literature in past in UAE, I had impression to must need to keep cooking temperature as CCP; however practically its always not.

In many situation cooking temperature is far above the limit 75 as in your case, you can mark it as OPRP or GOP/PRP, since it would not be possible that food is coming out from oven is less than 75C.

With regards to chicken wings I would suggest to develop a validation between time of cooking and for verification you may test samples to make sure at certain time you are achieving 75C.

Coming back to your question, 75C is minimum requirement for core temperature to kill pathogens, however you can keep your operation limit as indicative point to assure sufficient cooking is done and validation and verification records is proving that your operation limit is sufficient to achieve the minimum required temperature to kill pathogen from core.

 

Kind Regards

Inamuddin   



Charles.C

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 05:30 AM

Hi All,

We are a restaurant and serve products either cooked on flame or in oven.

Pasta is cooked over flame and temp is monitored by probe thermometer.However, pizza, chicken wings, calamari etc are baked at 371C.

Cooking record shows oven display temp for few items like pizza(371). However, chicken wings and other seafood etc are manually probe to check core temp.(75 or above)

My concern is that should I keep critical limit as 75C for all items and use probe thermometer to monitor temp OR should set different limit for baking of Pizza and rely on calibrated display to avoid probing all times?

Hope I was able to explain it clearly....

 

Hi HinaAmmar,

 

As in yr previous thread, the answer might depend on  what FS Standard (if any) is involved. Not yet known.

 

There are numerous discussions on this Forum and elsewhere regarding the appropriate (haccp) control of oven cooking operations.

 

Regarding "oven" processes in general, IIRC  you can find some "support" for any of these possibilities, -

 

(1) setting a  validated oven temperature as a CCP-critical limit, (seems statistically fairly common)

(2) setting no CCP/critical limit at all (seems statistically fairly common for dough-related products, I hv not, offhand, seen any use for poultry)(typically assumes that appearance of an inadequately heat-treated item [ie where temperature non-attains critical limit] will be visibly unacceptable therefore auto- rejected [ie = no hazard]).

(3) setting a  validated oven temperature as an OPRP (only potentially relevant for iso-haccp, eg FS Standard fssc22000)

(4) setting a  validated oven temperature as a PRP (seems relatively uncommon)

 

afaik the probe temperature is typically not used as a routine haccp monitoring datum for oven processes since more convenient to use oven temperature however probe data will be required for validation purposes.

 

Any validation (eg based on achieving a minimum core temperature 75 degC [at slowest heating point of the largest size item used] will need to consider temperature/time profile of oven, ie locating the coolest point.

 

Based on previous threads here, auditors seem to generally  expect use of (1) or (2) for non-iso haccp. Auditors favouring (1) may require a detailed defence if the auditee implements (2).

 

Offhand, I would suspect that some of the items you mentioned in OP may not meet the specific criterium noted in (2) ?  If not, and  assuming traditional Codex haccp, I  suggest No.(1) is preferable.

If using iso-haccp, additional factors may be involved with respect to No.(3).


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


ohoward1987

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 03:18 PM

Hi, I think it is not very necessary to check so properly the temperature. But I think that starting from 75c and more till 100c is the best temperature for cooking such food. By the way, my friend has a restaurant and she told me that the standards are not always so easy to follow and obey, so it can rely on. Don't worry about this so much.



Charles.C

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 03:53 PM

2-year old thread.

One more restaurant to avoid.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C




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