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Do I need to get two certificates of GMP & HACCP?


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#1 taein6022

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 01:54 AM

Good evening everyone,

 

I have a simple question about GMP & HACCP, so our factory is trying to get both BRC & SQF,

 

and I've heard that both GMP & HACCP are pre-requisite of all those GFSI certifications.

 

Do we need to get audits from USDA / FDA to get certification of each GMP & HACCP? or is that the only training that

 

we need to learn, and then prove to auditors when we audit BRC or SQF certification.

 

I hope you have a great evening guys.

 

Best Regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 SQFconsultant

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 02:01 AM

Thank you, having a great evening working on an SQF project here in beautiful Paso Ancho, Panama at the base of Baru Volcano.

I realize the posting might simple to you, however I did not understand what you are asking about and we consult on both... feeling dumb here - just a little bit.

Could you please clarify

Thanks.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC Group | +1.800.793.7042 | Serving the Food, Food Packaging & Food Storage Industries
SQF and Non-SQF Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants | China Alternate Sourcing Consultants
Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant Retainer | FoodSafeSQF | Pre-Lawsuit Covid-Recovery
Serving the new & beautiful Federal Republic of the United States of America & Alliance Countries

http://www.GlennOsterConsulting.com  


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#3 Charles.C

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 04:24 AM

Good evening everyone,

 

I have a simple question about GMP & HACCP, so our factory is trying to get both BRC & SQF,

 

and I've heard that both GMP & HACCP are pre-requisite of all those GFSI certifications.

                                           (GMP is a Prerequisite for HACCP, see below)

 

Do we need to get audits from USDA / FDA ?  to get certification of each GMP & HACCP?

                  (NO)                                                                                                (NO)

 

or is that the only training that we need to learn, and then prove to auditors when we audit BRC or SQF certification.

 

I hope you have a great evening guys.

 

Best Regards,

 

Hi taein,

 

The above text indicates that some considerable confusion exists regarding the meaning of GFSI, Certification, Food Safety Standards.

 

I suggest you urgently need to discuss yr requirements with a Consultant or study some relevant documentation.

 

Here is a brief, simplified, introduction to this topic -

 

BRC, SQF, etc are Private Food Safety Standards developed by different Groups  in a variety of  Geographical locations. They operate independently  of Government  Organisations like USDA/FDA although any existing local Regulatory Rules will take precedence in the event of a "difference" in specific safety-related requirements.

 

GFSI is another Private  Organisation which proposes  (generic) Benchmarks so as to promote a Uniform set of requirements for Private Food Safety Standards. Their requirements are published and freely available.

 

GFSI itself does not certify any individual Food Safety Standards or Manufacturing Facilities. GFSI does not issue Certification documentation.

 

GFSI does recognise individual FS Standards which comply with its benchmarks, eg BRC, SQF.

 

Accredited, Private Certification Boards (CBs) which maintain/supervise individual GFSI recognised Standards such as BRC, SQF do certify (based on audits) that individual Manufacturing Facilities are compliant with the relevant, GFSI-recognised, FS Standard, And issue Certificates for satisfactory audits.

 

The content of FS Standards basically relates to implementing/achieving 2 main functions - Food Safety(FS) and Management System(MS).

 

FS portion is typically based on HACCP methodology, eg as developed by Codex, NACMCF, or ISO.

MS portion is typically based on ISO methodology, eg as developed in iso9001

 

The HACCP methodology requires initial implementation of so-called Prerequisite programs which, for BRC/SQF, are (mostly) typically designated/integrated as a Group known as GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices).

 

GFSI recognised, FS Standards, eg BRC, SQF are effectively stand-alone systems as far as the audit is concerned however they have differences in audit Staging Procedures and Evaluation methods. It is also possible to arrange a preliminary (trial) audit for BRC solely for yr own information.

 

BRC/SQF FS Standards have a detailed Section explaining their associated audit/certification processes. You should download a (free) copy and have a look at the content.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#4 SQFconsultant

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 04:31 AM

That was great Charles.

It would benefit the company and personnal to at least have an initial discussion with a consultant to put a plan in place.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC Group | +1.800.793.7042 | Serving the Food, Food Packaging & Food Storage Industries
SQF and Non-SQF Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants | China Alternate Sourcing Consultants
Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant Retainer | FoodSafeSQF | Pre-Lawsuit Covid-Recovery
Serving the new & beautiful Federal Republic of the United States of America & Alliance Countries

http://www.GlennOsterConsulting.com  


#5 EagleEye

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 08:49 AM

Hi taein,

 

The above text indicates that some considerable confusion exists regarding the meaning of GFSI, Certification, Food Safety Standards.

 

I suggest you urgently need to discuss yr requirements with a Consultant or study some relevant documentation.

 

Here is a brief, simplified, introduction to this topic -

 

BRC, SQF, etc are Private Food Safety Standards developed by different Groups  in a variety of  Geographical locations. They operate independently  of Government  Organisations like USDA/FDA although any existing local Regulatory Rules will take precedence in the event of a "difference" in specific safety-related requirements.

 

GFSI is another Private  Organisation which proposes  (generic) Benchmarks so as to promote a Uniform set of requirements for Private Food Safety Standards. Their requirements are published and freely available.

 

GFSI itself does not certify any individual Food Safety Standards or Manufacturing Facilities. GFSI does not issue Certification documentation.

 

GFSI does recognise individual FS Standards which comply with its benchmarks, eg BRC, SQF.

 

Accredited, Private Certification Boards (CBs) which maintain/supervise individual GFSI recognised Standards such as BRC, SQF do certify (based on audits) that individual Manufacturing Facilities are compliant with the relevant, GFSI-recognised, FS Standard, And issue Certificates for satisfactory audits.

 

The content of FS Standards basically relates to implementing/achieving 2 main functions - Food Safety(FS) and Management System(MS).

 

FS portion is typically based on HACCP methodology, eg as developed by Codex, NACMCF, or ISO.

MS portion is typically based on ISO methodology, eg as developed in iso9001

 

The HACCP methodology requires initial implementation of so-called Prerequisite programs which, for BRC/SQF, are (mostly) typically designated/integrated as a Group known as GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices).

 

GFSI recognised, FS Standards, eg BRC, SQF are effectively stand-alone systems as far as the audit is concerned however they have differences in audit Staging Procedures and Evaluation methods. It is also possible to arrange a preliminary (trial) audit for BRC solely for yr own information.

 

BRC/SQF FS Standards have a detailed Section explaining their associated audit/certification processes. You should download a (free) copy and have a look at the content.

Pictured it all in one canvas...

Great work Charles!



#6 taein6022

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 06:13 PM

Hi taein,

 

The above text indicates that some considerable confusion exists regarding the meaning of GFSI, Certification, Food Safety Standards.

 

I suggest you urgently need to discuss yr requirements with a Consultant or study some relevant documentation.

 

Here is a brief, simplified, introduction to this topic -

 

BRC, SQF, etc are Private Food Safety Standards developed by different Groups  in a variety of  Geographical locations. They operate independently  of Government  Organisations like USDA/FDA although any existing local Regulatory Rules will take precedence in the event of a "difference" in specific safety-related requirements.

 

GFSI is another Private  Organisation which proposes  (generic) Benchmarks so as to promote a Uniform set of requirements for Private Food Safety Standards. Their requirements are published and freely available.

 

GFSI itself does not certify any individual Food Safety Standards or Manufacturing Facilities. GFSI does not issue Certification documentation.

 

GFSI does recognise individual FS Standards which comply with its benchmarks, eg BRC, SQF.

 

Accredited, Private Certification Boards (CBs) which maintain/supervise individual GFSI recognised Standards such as BRC, SQF do certify (based on audits) that individual Manufacturing Facilities are compliant with the relevant, GFSI-recognised, FS Standard, And issue Certificates for satisfactory audits.

 

The content of FS Standards basically relates to implementing/achieving 2 main functions - Food Safety(FS) and Management System(MS).

 

FS portion is typically based on HACCP methodology, eg as developed by Codex, NACMCF, or ISO.

MS portion is typically based on ISO methodology, eg as developed in iso9001

 

The HACCP methodology requires initial implementation of so-called Prerequisite programs which, for BRC/SQF, are (mostly) typically designated/integrated as a Group known as GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices).

 

GFSI recognised, FS Standards, eg BRC, SQF are effectively stand-alone systems as far as the audit is concerned however they have differences in audit Staging Procedures and Evaluation methods. It is also possible to arrange a preliminary (trial) audit for BRC solely for yr own information.

 

BRC/SQF FS Standards have a detailed Section explaining their associated audit/certification processes. You should download a (free) copy and have a look at the content.

 

 


 

 

 

Thank you always Mr. C  :spoton:

 

That is what I thought Mr. C. However, our R & D representative from headquarter told me that we need both GMP & HACCP certifications before we get the SQF or BRC certification.

 

To clarify, 1. GMP is a prerequisite of HACCP

                2. We don't need to get certifications of neither GMP nor HACCP

 

Additionally, since we don't have any certifications of HACCP, how to prove to SQF or BRC consultants that we have had HACCP training?

 

Again, Thank you very much about your help Mr. C.

 

Best Regards,



#7 SQFconsultant

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 06:18 PM

R&D is wrong.

But the SQF Practitioner and Cover/SQFP backup needS HACCP training with formal certificate issued.

HACCP team members need HACCP training also but this can be done informally in-house by conducting a general review.

Main point is to prove HACCP training and knowledge of same at Audit time.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC Group | +1.800.793.7042 | Serving the Food, Food Packaging & Food Storage Industries
SQF and Non-SQF Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants | China Alternate Sourcing Consultants
Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant Retainer | FoodSafeSQF | Pre-Lawsuit Covid-Recovery
Serving the new & beautiful Federal Republic of the United States of America & Alliance Countries

http://www.GlennOsterConsulting.com  


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#8 taein6022

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 06:34 PM

Thank you Mr. Oster !

 

and really sorry for giving you a hard time to understand earlier.  :(

 

For additional question, our factory will have about 40 total employees before this August, do we still need a HACCP team (e.g. factory manager, QA, processing line representative, engineers, and etc.)? 

 

or we can have 1~2 representatives who will take care of all these jobs? (Since our factory isn't large, we can't really hire many representatives from each section.)

 

Again, Thank you Mr. Oster.

 

Best regards,



#9 Charles.C

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 08:17 PM

Thank you Mr. Oster !

 

and really sorry for giving you a hard time to understand earlier.  :(

 

For additional question, our factory will have about 40 total employees before this August, do we still need a HACCP team (e.g. factory manager, QA, processing line representative, engineers, and etc.)? 

 

or we can have 1~2 representatives who will take care of all these jobs? (Since our factory isn't large, we can't really hire many representatives from each section.)

 

Again, Thank you Mr. Oster.

 

Best regards,

 

 

See previous thread -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ry/#entry137084


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#10 SQFconsultant

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 09:17 PM

You are welcome and not a problem.

We'll you really do need to have a haccp team. It might be only 2 people. Not sure what you mean by "hiring" from the different sections... sounds like a union?

Anyway, 2 would be fine.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC Group | +1.800.793.7042 | Serving the Food, Food Packaging & Food Storage Industries
SQF and Non-SQF Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants | China Alternate Sourcing Consultants
Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant Retainer | FoodSafeSQF | Pre-Lawsuit Covid-Recovery
Serving the new & beautiful Federal Republic of the United States of America & Alliance Countries

http://www.GlennOsterConsulting.com  


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#11 Charles.C

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:36 AM

You are welcome and not a problem.

We'll you really do need to have a haccp team. It might be only 2 people. Not sure what you mean by "hiring" from the different sections... sounds like a union?

Anyway, 2 would be fine.

 

I disagree, eg -

 

Attached File  haccp team.PNG   27.98KB   0 downloads

 

+ a Practitioner presumably.

 

No doubt skeletal exceptions do exist, eg -

 

Attached File  haccp team (2).PNG   85.97KB   0 downloads

(I would have replaced "small" with "very small")

 

+ a Practitioner presumably

 

IMO, for any "significant" quantity of Production, the lower example is effectively a "business"  facilitation. From a Safety POV, debatable.

 

 


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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